Humans of Tango
TRANSCRIPT ~ EPISODE 22
EPISODE 22: Tango women, with Camila Arriva
Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: "Cantando" by Mercedes Simone, with short clips of "Soñando," by Paquita Bernardo with lyrics by Eugenio Cárdenas, and “Ni una Menos” by Verónica Bellini all recorded by Camila Arriva Grupo as part of MUJERES | Image Credit: Facu Suárez
[MUSIC]
LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk, and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance, and in this case, sing it.
CAMILA:
I cannot separate myself - like, I am the same during my life and during my singing, my whole career. It's very important to me to have an identity as a tango singer or tango producer. For example, my last album is only instrumental. I don't sing there, but it's very important to me to record this because I need to, to share my idea of tango with everyone. Like, I need to have, uh, the whole repertoire made by women on Spotify.
[MUSIC - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Ya no tengo la dulzura de sus besos,
vago sola por el mundo y sin amor.
Otra boca más feliz será la dueña
de sus besos que eran toda mi pasión.
Hay momentos que no sé lo que me pasa,
tengo ganas de reír y de llorar.
Tengo celos, tengo miedo que no vuelva.
Yo lo quiero, no lo puedo remediar.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Camila Arriva is on a mission to bring more women's voices to modern tango. The most obvious way she does this is with her own voice, which you just heard singing "Cantando," a tango written in 1931 by singer, actress, composer, and lyricist Mercedes Simone. The recording is from the first album of Mujeres, an ongoing collaboration with four other female musicians to perform and record a repertoire of tangos composed, re-versioned, and interpreted entirely by women.
Camila's part of a broader movement in her native Argentina and in the global tango community to recognize and empower women in a traditionally patriarchal culture. A full exploration of feminism and tango is beyond our scope here, but if you're not familiar with this movement, I encourage you to start with some resources I linked in the show notes. Now, let's hear Camila describe how her mission was born.
CAMILA:
Okay, the Golden Age, and I-
[LIZ ASIDE] She's doing air quotes here.
CAMILA: -use my fingers. The Golden Age in tango is the '40s, you know? And it's not a coincidence that in this period, we don't have women. We don't have singers. We don't have composers. We don't have players. In Argentina, we had a channel called "Volver" with a lot of movies in black and white, with a lot of tangos. And you can see Tita Merello, Azucena Maizani, all these famous cancionistas, these famous singers. And one of the first things that I noticed on the milonga was where are these female voices that I heard on the television, you know? And a lot of people told me in that moment that the female voices is not, um, a very good combination with the orchestra. Why? Because of the sound? Because of the instrument, because of why? And I, for a lot of months, I was telling this not-true story, no? "Ah, no, no, the female voice is not a good combination because of the sound - they were too loud, or too, too high, or... maybe it's another thing. And it was because of the role of the singer. They couldn't be outside from home...
LIZ: Yeah. I actually just interviewed a historian, like, a Golden Age historian last week-
[LIZ ASIDE] Shout-out to Michael Lavocah, who I should clarify doesn't call himself a historian but does have serious expertise in Golden Age tango music and who you can hear from in episode 21 of this podcast.
CAMILA: and?
LIZ: and it was- he was saying that people started dancing to singers more in the '40s, right? That, like, they started incorporating the singers into the milongas, having people perform live, and women couldn't go to, like, a dance hall and perform late at night, right?
CAMILA: Yes. Yeah, yeah - absolutely. So there were a lot of orchestras from señoritas, young ladies orchestras, but they played at 4 p.m, you know? They would be at home at 8.
LIZ: And that constrained how, how famous they could get, I guess.
CAMILA: Yeah, yes.
Our first tango in our repertoire is from Paquita Bernardo - this year has 100 years. Paquita Bernardo was the first bandoneonist player-
[LIZ ASIDE] as in first professional female bandoneon player
CAMILA: -and she took Pugliese as the pianist player of her band, for example.
[LIZ ASIDE] And yes, Pugliese here refers to THE tango-superstar composer and pianist, Osvaldo Pugliese.
CAMILA: And she only lived 25 years. She died very, very soon. And she was so famous. And nobody knows her now.
LIZ: Sorry, what is the tango called?
CAMILA: This one is "Soñando."
LIZ: Soñando.
CAMILA: Soñando. And this tango is famous because of Gardel, because Gardel recorded it. And nobody knows this tango. And it's unbelievable because during her time it was very famous.
[MUSIC - CLIP OF "SOÑANDO]
Soñando, siempre, soñando
con tu divina hermosura,
mi vida se va acabando
por una intensa amargura.
¡Y es tan fatal mi desgracia
que sólo te sé llorar!
Miro en mi cuarto tan pobre
el retrato que me dieras
y al contemplarlo quisiera
que mi alma viviese en él...
CAMILA: So I think that during this '40s, this Golden Age, they tried to put them away, you know. Or Azucena Maizani. She has a lot of tangos made herself. Tita Morello has too. And a lot of people don't know that she was a composer too.
I think that there is a very difference between the typical tangos and the tangos made by women in general. In our repertoire, we cannot find this, this idea of "She's a very bad one" and "I'm a poor girl because of him." Like, no. And this is something that I love. This is something that I have during my relationships too. I take care-
LIZ: So, what, what themes do you notice in the lyrics of tangos by women?
CAMILA: They're not cruel. They have not violence inside. If you meet somebody on the street in Buenos Aires, the idea of tango is very macho song. And the woman is always like we have two archetypes of women in tango. Everybody speaks about that. Like the mother, she's glorious. She's, how do you say, "santa"?
LIZ: A saint. Pure.
CAMILA: Yes.
[LIZ ASIDE] Could also be saintly, or holy.
CAMILA: Like the religion, no? And the other one is like "She's a prostitute," you know. "I took her from the suburbs and now she's, like, a very famous one and she's the worst one." And in our repertoire we don't have this idea. We don't have two kind of men, our father and our- no.
LIZ: It's not so simplified.
CAMILA: No, no, no. For sure there is a lot of love songs. But it's, "okay. I don't care if you are with another one. I will be fine, with or without you."
[MUSIC - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Cantando yo le di mi corazón, mi amor,
y desde que se fue, yo canto mi dolor.
Cantando lo encontré, cantando lo perdí
Porque no sé llorar cantando he de morir.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Camila heard and even sang some tango in her youth. But she didn't get into it until she found herself missing home while studying classical music in Berlin, Germany, and decided to try tango dance classes.
CAMILA:
It was so weird because nobody there knew that I was Argentinian. And they start to speak about the milongueras in Buenos Aires. Her posture is like that and you have to make a small talk between tangos. They tried to explain how is our culture, no? Or how, how is, how is a woman in the scene of tango. And it was so funny because for me, it's like, I never been in a milonga before but in that moment I thought "this is not real." One hour later I spoke with the teacher and I told him "I'm from Argentina and I'm totally disagree with that. We are not like that." We are not femme fatale in a milonga, you know? And that was my second class.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Luckily Camila's frustration in that class didn't stop her from learning to dance and eventually becoming a professional tango singer, producer and DJ. Camila lives in Buenos Aires, now, but she was actually back in Berlin as part of a European tour when we spoke.
Camila loves the word "idiosyncrasy," which Cambridge defines as "a strange or unusual habit, way of behaving, or feature." Camila uses the word on a cultural level to describe the small ways of being that make different cultures unique and how she sees those idiosyncrasies affect how tango is represented and experienced in different tango communities.
CAMILA:
When I was here, during my first year, I knew a lot of people that told me "I'm not going to an Argentinian meetings or to milongas. I try to don't speak in Spanish because I try to be integrated with the new culture." For me it was impossible and I think that if I'm a very... fan of Argentinian now, it's because I was living here for five years, you know?
LIZ: You appreciate it. You can see it from a different perspective having been away.
CAMILA: Yeah. And it has a lot of meaning when you are in the tango scene, you know, because of the language, the things that you share in a milonga. I don't know, drinks, or food, or stories, or the way to dress. During my first year here I took several lessons every week and then one year later I was in a milonga for the first time in Buenos Aires and it was unbelievable - like, a lot of noise between tangos, I made a lot of figures that I supposed to, to do and the man who was dancing with me goes "no no, we're just walking," and "relax, listen the music." And it was the first time that I- "okay," like, when you are in a party dancing cumbia, you know, you don't care if you make one thing or another thing, you are, you are dancing. Like, I don't know where are my feet when I'm dancing cumbia, for example.
LIZ SCRIPT:
If you're like me and don't know a ton about cumbia I've left a few links in the show notes, but I think Camila's point has to do with her feeling that the idiosyncrasies and unique tango ecosystem in Buenos Aires left more room for true improvisation and presence than she experienced in Europe. This emphasis on improvisation and presence connects to another of Camila's passions - bringing more live music to tango dancing.
CAMILA:
I love to dance with live music. It's like a game. When we are in a concert - I don't know, a rock concert - you're jumping and if the band stop you stop, and nobody cares. And in tango, it's supposed to be the same. So you have the beat, and when you don't have the beat, you stop. I think that the people is very- acostumbrada?
LIZ: used to?
CAMILA: -the people is used to hear the same orchestra again and again and they know all the arrangements between the melodies, so this is the reason that we, 80 years- despues?
LIZ: 80 years after
[LIZ ASIDE] a better translation is 80 years later
CAMILA: -we continue to to put these tangos, no, on the milonga. Because they know that "pling pling" and you can "pling pling" make, like that. We, we call it- in Buenos Aires we call it, uh, "chingy chingy." They love the chingy chingy, yeah, they love the- uh, something that they can make the this, uh, the choreography.
In music in general, the first thing is rhythm, then melody, then harmony, then arrangements. And my music has rhythm. It's supposed to be on the same beat that the old orchestras. So, why not? Because we don't make this pling pling, or we don't make the same version of the song that you know? The arrangements are made now by my pianist, called Amalia Escobar. She plays in a lot of tanguerías, she has the tango on her blood, you know, so she knows how can it be more danceable. So, I trust her, and even if we are, for example, for the next album, I propose her to make something not too much danceable, so make a slower beat to have these performances only in concerts. And it will be the first time for us, because this album will speak about Buenos Aires.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Elevating the contributions of women in tango's history is clearly a big part of Camila's mission. But re-versioned classic tangos are only about 50% of the MUJERES repertoire. The other half are new tangos, written by contemporary artists like Verónica Bellini, who wrote "Ni una Menos" in solidarity with the movement to end violence against women that was sparked in Buenos Aires and spread throughout Latin America and beyond. These modern tangos, like every aspect of Camila's work from what I can tell, are both personal and political.
[MUSIC - CLIP OF "NI UNA MENOS"]
Ahora estamos juntas ninguna está sola
lastimando a una, nos herís a todas;
porque ya no existen dolores ajenos
hoy nos duele a todas, no habrá ni una menos.
Gritaremos fuerte por las murieron
por las que callaron, las que no pudieron
escapar a tiempo, juntar el valor
ver que era posible una vida mejor
CAMILA:
In 2015, it was a very big movement called "Ni una Menos," and then the feminism movement in tango was created. And a lot of things are happening right now, so it's important to show that movement too. For me. And to maybe keep the idea that you can choose between traditional and non-traditional tango, but for sure they can-
[LIZ ASIDE] co-exist
CAMILA: -convivir, they can live together.
In Argentina, everything is very complex and the culture is the last thing that we have to take care... right now.
LIZ: Like, people are not worrying about the culture because there are so many other problems? Hmm.
CAMILA: Yes, yes. So, I think that it's the very first time that we don't have concerts coming up.
LIZ: In Buenos Aires, you won't be performing in Buenos Aires.
CAMILA: Yes. It's impossible to book something if they don't have the right budget. If you have to take a taxi with your instrument two ways, you spend the whole, the whole money that you won that night. And, yeah, for example, I have the whole arrangements of this new album and I cannot record, because we don't have the money to make it in the right way, you know? And I think that in tango, we have a little atmosfera-
[LIZ ASIDE] atmosphere
CAMILA: -because during the summer season, we have a lot of people that come from outside so we have more dollars and the milongas work very well. So, yeah, during this summer was good enough, but now I'm a little afraid about the winter and I'm a little afraid about the culture. I'm a little afraid about my family - a lot of things. So this is the other reason that I want to be here on October too. Here or USA, or Mexico, or [LAUGHING] outside from Argentina. But yeah, it's not impossible, it's complicated because, because it's something new. Right now, in this particular moment, there are a lot of dancers, musicians, uh, DJs touring because we have to, we have to be outside - we need money - so it's a thing that I'm saying to a lot of organizers. Right now, try to give work to Argentinians - try to make a balance with us, because we need it and because we can we can teach you some things.
[MUSIC - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Virgencita milagrosa, perdoname
si cantando esta canción que vive en mí
yo te pido que me traigas lo que es mío,
que tan pronto y sin motivo lo perdí.
Si es pecado querer tanto en esta vida
yo te pido, de rodillas, tu perdón.
Yo lo quiero tanto y tanto que me muero
si no tengo las caricias de su amor.
CAMILA:
During this tour, I cannot make my repertoire and I think that I'm, I'm losing power, you know? [LAUGHS] Em, I like a lot of tangos, I like- one of my favorites is "Tú" because I think it's the most romantic one, you know? But when I sing this kind of tango - "Tú," or "Buscándote," or "Vida Mía" - it's not me singing. Yeah, one of my dreams is be here with the band and, and not fighting with the organizator [sic] if it's danceable or not danceable, if it's known or not known, or if it's useful or not useful for the milonga, you know?
I need to be me - during the shows, when I'm choosing which tango I want to record. I think that during the first part of MUJERES, I don't know, three years ago or something like that, I was trying to get inside the very traditional milongas in Buenos Aires, you know? Because I want to show my work. But now, I'm okay. I don't call them at all. Because it's- I had a lot of bad experiences and I'm so proud of my work and my project. And I don't...It's like my little baby, you know? But I think that the world must change a little bit - not only the tango world - to, to respect this kind of work. So, we have a lot of people that love our project inside a Queer Tango or inside a 21-Century Tango and they respect us.
Maybe it sounds that I'm tired or I'm sad in this moment. But I'm so proud in another way that I can share this, this idea with a lot of people too. And now I'm receiving a lot of love and a lot of, of, yeah, love from a lot of places that I, I didn't know or I didn't think that I can receive this energy, no? So I'm very happy. And I think that it's the beginning of something bigger, you know? I see me like, um... How do you say "hormiga" in English?
LIZ: A little ant.
CAMILA: A little ant, yeah. And who I am to say that or to share this idea. And now I'm relaxed that I can change every day. And I... I'm searching a lot of tools to be, uh, better. [LAUGHTER] Better singer, better producer, better person... woman.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Mil gracias, Camila - for your voice, your mission, and the three recordings from MUJERES that accompany this episode. "Cantando," with music and lyrics by Mercedes Simone, and short clips of "Soñando," by Paquita Bernardo, with lyrics by Eugenio Cárdenas, and "Ni Una Menos," by Verónica Bellini.
[MUSIC - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Cantando yo le di mi corazón, mi amor,
y desde que se fue, yo canto mi dolor.
Cantando lo encontré, cantando lo perdí
Porque no sé llorar cantando he de morir.