Humans of Tango
Transcripts
Episode 19: Tango (r)evolution, with Sol Orozco
Episode 18: Small movements toward tango for all, with Arno Plass
Episode 17: Party every day, with Yolanda Hume
Episode 16: Pragmatic dreaming, with London Hong
Episode 15: Instinct Tango, with Aníbal Dominguez
Episode 14: Giving and growing, with Ayano Yoneda
Episode 13: Love and eye-rolling, with Anthea Okereke
Episode 12: The art of the tango DJ, with Nel Mastrodomenico
Episode 11: Embracing to change the world, with Alex Pacheco Castillo
Episode 10: Music for dancing, with Craig Einhorn
Episode 9: Keeping the fire alive, with Felipe Martinez
Episode 8: Toward a culture of listening, with Heyni Solera
Episode 7: Reflecting the collective dream, with Jaime Montemayor
Episode 6: Disappearing so tango can talk, with Juan Cantone
Episode 5: Your own personal tango, with Eugenia Park
Episode 4: A friendly obsession, with Nick Thompson
Episode 3: Why we should all be dancing tango, with Simona Ciampi
Episode 2: Image, authenticity, and building bridges, with Phi Lee Lam
Episode 1: Reflections of a queer tango trailblazer, with Augusto La Marshall
EPISODE 14:
Giving and growing, with Ayano Yoneda
Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: “Ninguna” written by Raúl Fernández Siro with lyrics by Homero Manzi and performed by Angel D'Agostino y Su Orquesta Típica with Angel Vargas; and “Amarras,” written by Carlos Marchisio with lyrics by Carmelo Santiago and performed by Alberto Castillo y su Orquesta Típica | Image Credit: Mido Kwon
LIZ: Do you have a song or two right now that are just on the top of your mind that you're particularly loving?
AYANO: It's, um, it's spring here. And I see now from out the window, you can see the magnolia blossoming. There is a song that says “magnolia que mojó la luna,” that the moon, um, wetted the magnolia. Every time I hear that, I just, like, imagine the magnolia flower and then the moon is shining as if, probably, the light is reflecting on the petals and it's wetting the magnolia. And I just thought...
LIZ: It’s like glistening in the moonlight.
AYANO: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. I just think - every time I'm dancing and I'm like, “magnolia que mojó la luna” and I’m like “ohhh…”
[MUSIC FADING IN - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
No habrá ninguna igual, no habrá ninguna,
Ninguna con tu piel ni con tu voz.
Tu piel, magnolia que mojó la luna.
Tu voz, murmullo que entibió el amor.
No habrá ninguna igual, todas murieron
Desde el momento en que dijiste adiós.
LIZ SCRIPT:
That's Ayano Yoneda, tango teacher, organizer, DJ, and co-founder of the Tango Poetry Project. The goal of the Tango Poetry Project is to bring attention to the poetry of tango - and it certainly worked for me.
Since speaking with Ayano, I've had this song, “Ninguna,” wafting through my mind like the scent of magnolias. I knew the song before, but hearing Ayano talk about its lyrics brought it to life in a new way.
LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
No habrá ninguna igual, no habrá ninguna,
Ninguna con tu piel ni con tu voz.
Tu piel, magnolia que mojó la luna.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Ayano's tango journey started in 2005, about a year after she moved from her native Japan to San Francisco.
Tu voz, murmullo que entibió el amor.
[MUSIC FADES]
AYANO:
In U.S., it's very language-oriented. A lot of people come from different places. You need to explicitly express your opinion, otherwise they cannot guess. In Japan, mostly everybody is Japanese, and many things are assumed. You need to sense what other people want. Like, even when you want a salt when you're having a dinner, you don't ask that. That's actually really rude. I remember after coming here and going back to family dinner, my father got really upset because I asked that and he said, “how Americanized, how rude you are.” It was really upsetting for him. In Japan, other people sense that other people want something, and they do that for you, so here you have to say something, but the great thing for me was that I always wanted to say my opinion. For some reason, that's how I was born, and I never fit in. And I love that about the U.S., that of course people judge, but way less than in Japan and I don't care, and I just be myself. And in Bay Area, here in San Francisco Bay Area, even more. And I really appreciate that, that I can be myself, I can express my opinion, and I don't get punished for that. Sometimes I am even rewarded for that. That's really amazing that we have that culture here.
LIZ: Do you feel like that sensing that you talked about, is that like a superpower though, you grew up learning to do that?
AYANO: No, it's trained.
LIZ: But I mean like now that you've trained it, do you feel like you're more sensitive to other people, or have you had to, like, turn it off to live in other cultures?
AYANO: No, no, no, no, no. Of course, of course you sense it. I mean, now I don't, uh, fetch water for everyone anymore. I used to do that, and, you know, they can take care of themselves, but, um, yes, I use that all the time. I wish everybody have that superpower - it's not a superpower, it's just awareness.
Somebody took me to a Halloween milonga, and I fell in love immediately because I thought it was like a Cinderella's ball. I didn't know that the partner dance existed in this time and era. And I realized that it's really easy. That's what got me. It's slow, you don't have to memorize choreography, and I love that because I'm not a dancer, I'm not very good at physical movement. I didn't do anything physical as a hobby in my life, and I could finally find something even I can do. Um, so I was very excited, and my teacher kept saying, “oh, you'll be good, you'll be good.” And that get me going, even though I was not very good, but I still could do it, no, that was already enough motivation.
And I started dancing, and I realized it's really scary. I remember my first close embrace in Buenos Aires, and I was like, it’s too close… I don't touch people because I'm Japanese. I never hug my mother, I never hug my father, like, you don't touch people. And so it took a really long time for me to get comfortable with it. But then, of course, when you come from a different world that your whole life deprived of human touch, and you get into it, then you're like, all in. I'm completely addicted.
The other thing that got me a lot is that I found a woman in me. I focused so much on my studying, on my career, I was in finance, like, go, go, go, focus, focus. And I never considered myself as a woman ever, until then. I was never a pretty girl, so I thought, “oh, I have to study hard because I need to earn my living for myself.” [LAUGHS] And so when you go into the world of tango, there are definitely this pull and this energy between man and woman, or between woman and woman, it doesn't matter what you're, um, attracted to. But I definitely felt that energy and, oh, like, “oh, maybe I am actually a woman. Maybe I should consider myself, like, how to present myself.” And then little by little, I also started gaining confidence. As a dancer, I grew, but also as a woman, I grew. I discovered myself. And now I am a completely different person than before tango. And I think now as a teacher, I am helping, or witnessing, that discovery and journey in other people. And it's really rewarding.
[MUSIC]
LIZ SCRIPT:
This is another favorite of Ayano's, “Amarras,” which means moorings in English. The lyrics, which you'll hear later in the episode, describe the suffering of a man who feels immobilized by memories of an unrequited love, like a boat tethered to the shore. It's a powerful metaphor. But if Ayano were a boat, I would imagine her floating free in a river of infinite tango discovery, together with her partner in life and tango, Felipe Martinez, who you can hear from in episode nine of this podcast.
[MUSIC FADES]
AYANO:
When I started, one of the first thing I did after just dancing, participating as a dancer, was actually organizing a marathon - which is crazy. Many events were finishing up that year, and I asked all the local organizers, “Hey, so-and-so, these events are ending. Don't you want to organize something in San Francisco?” They were very smart and experienced. They didn't want to do it, it's too much work. And then that's when I met Felipe and he was like, “oh, you know, I always wanted to do something. We can do something together.” So that's what I did first. But I wanted to do it so I can give back.
At that time, I was dancing like five nights a week locally and going to events at least once a month nationally, traveling all over. And I was, like, in this, like, total tango-high mode. I met a lot of people and it was great. And I realized that we have a lot of great dancers back in San Francisco who cannot go out to events because of family situation, financial situation, or whatever it is, no? And I thought, what if my friends that I met in these events can come to San Francisco and can dance with my friends that I love dancing with that are here, that cannot travel? That would be win-win. And that was the motivation.
LIZ: So did you start organizing with Felipe before you two got together?
AYANO: Yeah.
LIZ: Ahaaa, I didn't realize that.
AYANO: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a local teacher with a lot of experience. I was just a newbie, very excited, like, tango baby excited with tango. And we just teamed up together - because I was in finance, so I could do all the numbers and all the research on the venues, ‘cause it's a lot of logistics. When I started DJing also, like, a lot of the local great DJs left San Francisco or stopped DJing because they had to focus on their career, family, whatever. And then I, um, because of my knee injury, I'd been studying music already. And that's when I thought, okay, maybe I will start practicing. I practiced at The Beat for a while.
[LIZ ASIDE] The Beat is a venue in Berkeley where Ayano and Felipe offer a weekly class and práctica.
AYANO: And then people started asking, like, “well do you want to DJ at my milonga?” “Okay, I'll try.” And little by little, it grew to this. With teaching also, same thing happened. Now I'm teaching by myself because Felipe’s in Spain. And it's a big jump for me, it was a big challenge for me. And at the same time, I realize now I'm ready because of all the training that I had teaching with Felipe, no? It's very interesting. Life takes you to different places that you don't think of.
When you do analysis in finance, it's a very lonely job. You only talk to your fund manager. And I knew that this way of communicating with different people was not my forte. I don't think I was a very kind person. I was very selfish, very career focused. So this side of tango as a community taught me a lot, really. Like, I started - before teaching, I was helping at the door, you know, like, accepting people because I couldn't dance because my knee was broken. And I started learning people's names and saying hi, and that was really nice because I didn't talk to many of them. As a dancer, I was in the same room all the time because they were regulars at the Beat, but I would not talk to them and it really, like, it humbled me. Breaking my knee was really one of the best things that ever happened to me.
And then, so when I started assisting Felipe in the class, like half of my fear was gone because I already knew the regulars, because I was at the door. And now as I teach, I learned that everybody learns in different ways. There are sooo many different ways to learn. And it's fascinating to me. And then they teach me. They don't even realize that they’re teaching me. When I see the reaction, how they discover certain things, whether it sticks or not. The point is like, what is the most fundamental thing that they must know? And what is your goal in that moment for that particular student? What to focus on, obviously, is different in the stage of the dancers, of where each dancer is in that moment, because it's their own journey. But for example, in the case of the beginners, that they get going and they have fun.
Right now, I am teaching this four-weeks beginner series. And we have one-hour class and two-hour práctica. Most of them stay till the end of the práctica, which is very rare. I tell them that, oh, you need to try with everyone. At least you need to try with five people and that they need to try with me because tango is transmitted body to body. And I don't conclude the class, in fact. At the end, I give them a project. They need to actually complete it in the práctica. So now it's time that you can practice all of this. And then they're like, oh, we’re excited. And then they're, like, not perfect, of course. But they're having fun. Because I am from Japan, which is the country of perfectionists, it is a very big leap in my belief, or in my journey as a teacher.
LIZ: To let go of that.
AYANO: Yes. Because it becomes punishing. Then it's not fun. Like, positive reinforcement, I never grew up with that, but I know, like, now I need to work on that, no? Like, um, I think I do a lot of that now that I understand the power of that.
LIZ: As a teacher, or with yourself?
AYANO: Yes, as a teacher. Oh, with myself? Oh, I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
LIZ: That's next. After you've practiced with your students.
AYANO: By the end of my life I hope to get there.
LIZ SCRIPT:
In the past few years, Ayano has found yet another way to give back to the global tango community that's given her so much.
AYANO:
It started because I was dancing in Canning with this milonguero that I really love.
[LIZ ASIDE] That's Salon Canning, an iconic social tango space in Buenos Aires.
AYANO: And I was like, you know, in between songs, “I'm really frustrated because I want to get better, but I don't know how, and I'm so anxious and I love this dance.” And he goes, “well just listen to the poetry, and then put your heart into it and you'll be a milonguera.” And I'm like, okay, we can try that. So I danced like that in the second song. I was just, like, really listening to the singer and trying to figure out what they were saying. And then I'm like, I connected with him in a different level, ‘cause obviously he was dancing to that, to the sentiment of the story and also the voice of the singers that was carrying the story. And I was like, after the second song, I'm like, okay, this is a very different dance now. And I liked it. That's when I started, I said “okay, I need to invest time in this” because I don't- I cannot decipher all the lyrics on the spot. So I'm like, “okay, I'm going to start paying attention to it." And that was the beginning of that.
LIZ SCRIPT:
What came out of that dance floor epiphany is the Tango Poetry Project, an ongoing effort to educate and inspire by offering the lyrics of classic tangos and other cultural and historical context all in English.
AYANO:
It's the three pillars of tango, right? The dancing, the music, and the poetry. And most people are aware of these two, the music and the dancing. But poetry is as important and as rich as the other two. And people think, “oh, I don't speak Spanish.” You don't need to speak Spanish! It's all translated. I am trying to find somebody who can develop an app where we can shazam it, as if, and then a translation will pop up, like, right there in one second, so when you are at the milonga, “oh, I like this,” and then you can see it.
LIZ: Wow.
AYANO: That would be awesome. And it's, I mean, it should be possible soon. Soon, hopefully by the end of 2023, we have all the songs that we mainly dance to. So we can cover like 90% of the songs that we dance to all translated and all accessible. Because it's like the dance. The more you know, the deeper things get, and it's just, like, it's never ending. It fascinates you even more.
The material is there online, but a lot of people don't know about it, so I really want to do more live events. So there are milongas that I DJ that I prepare beforehand. And all of the songs, the lyrics and translations are projected on the wall. So if you're not dancing, you can read and listen while you're sitting. That's one project. And then the other project is that I do a lecture, interactive lecture, so people can start getting to know about the existence of poetry and what each song talk about. All of that is to bring attention. Once they're interested, they can look it up at home. ‘Cause tango music you can listen at home, you don't have to do it in the milonga. But people come to the dance because they are attracted to the dance, so for me, it's a great opportunity to capture their attention and bring their attention to the side of the poetry, which will enrich their dance, and we would all have a better time together.
[MUSIC STARTS - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Vago como sombra atormentada
bajo el gris de la recova,
me recuerdo y no soy nada...
Soy como mi lancha carbonera
que ha quedado recalada,
bien atada a la ribera.
Yo también atado a mi pasado
soy un barco que está anclado
y siento en mi carne sus amarras
como garfios, como garras.
Lloro aquellos días
que jamás han de volver;
sueño aquellos besos
que jamas he de tener,
soy como mi lancha carbonera
que ha quedado en la ribera,
¡no parte más!
[MUSIC FADES]
LIZ SCRIPT:
Ayano doesn't follow the tradition from mainstream tango culture of gendered roles - she dances as both a leader and follower. She does draw inspiration from that gendered tradition when she leads.
AYANO:
When I lead, I don't consider myself as a woman. When I lead, I embody men. I even wear jackets sometimes. That helps me. For me to participate in the dance floor, it comes with certain responsibility, and I want to be really good at it, excel at it, because I'm a woman. I don't want people telling, “oh, you know, she bumped into me. But you know, what can you do, ‘cause she's a woman.” I don't want them saying that to any woman leader. So I myself take the responsibility and I take extra good care in the floor craft, protecting my partner and protecting the people around me. So for me, that's number one. And for that, the attitude of the man, this confidence, taking charge, being aware. I definitely take charge and I feel like, almost like something goes inside me and become a different person, different persona.
LIZ SCRIPT:
If leading for Ayano is all about protecting, following is all about the embrace.
AYANO:
It took a really long time for me to feel comfortable. And I think, in fact, it was really my weakness. Like some people say, Oh, so-and-so's embrace feels so nice. You know, nobody told me about that. And I always felt like, damn it, like, I need to work on this, this is my weakness! And then Felipe is really big on the embrace, of course. And he has a really, really nice hug. He gives a really healing, nice, magical hug when he greets people. Oh, this, this is nice. I wonder how I can do that. And I'm like, okay, maybe I want to emulate that energy. And then at the same time, we have to move, like it's, it's quite challenging. And I think, um, one other thing that is really diff- made a difference for me is Javier Rodriguez. He's a really amazing maestro. And he said, “it's something that you give, that you take care of the man.”
[LIZ ASIDE] Man meaning leader in this case.
AYANO: “And you melt.” And then from there, like, after that conversation, as we were teaching, as I'm dancing, my perception for the embrace changed. And there was also another time that I was leading in Slovenia. A Swedish woman that I never knew. I asked her for a dance. And the first song, she was, like, really guarded. And second song, she let go. And she started embracing me. I felt a clear difference. She trusted me. Because first song, you don't know her and she's a woman, you know, like, so she was like dancing very conservatively. And in the second song, she let go, she really embraced me, and that empowered me. It made a huge difference. And with that, and then we had, we had a blast. And so all of that combined, I realized that, oh my god, embrace is everything. As a follower, it's the gift that we give to the leader. And when you give that, trust everything, you melt, like, you have no surface, no axis, I don't care how I look, I'm just like gonna [swoosh sound], I melt into the leader. And then the leader feels so empowered, and they can do anything. And then we have a great time together. It's not like a matter of, like, close embrace, open embrace. It doesn't really matter, no? It's more about, like, this relationship and this entrega.
[LIZ ASIDE] As fellow tango folks will know well, entrega is a huge word in tango. I tend to translate it as “giving over,” which I guess is a lot like surrender, but with an important note of empowerment.
AYANO: And when I started thinking about that, I think people started commenting on my embrace, actually, that they really like it. It's a gift that I can- it's my gift because my embrace only I can give, you know? I always tell my students, like, you know, the only thing is like, I'm here for you, everything is gonna to be fine. Like I embrace - I don't say it, but I say it with my embrace, that I'm here for you - everything's gonna be fine. Because, you know, leading is a lot of pressure. You need to create the story. You need to take care of the environment, the safety, navigation, all of that. It's a lonely, um, scary thing to do sometimes, no? And follower don't think that. Follower thinks, a lot of the time, “oh, they’re doing their thing, I need to follow their thing, I cannot make a mistake,” like they’re taking a test or something. And it’s like, no, it's not about that at all. Regardless, even if you're a beginner. You, without you, they cannot dance. They need you to dance. It's like, you are a very important part of the partnership. Like it's hundred and hundred together.
LIZ: Well, it sounds like you think of the- you talked about the leader being a protector, but the follower is a protector in a way as well.
AYANO: Yes! It's actually, yes. Yes, totally. Totally. Isn't that partnership about?
LIZ: Sounds like a good partnership to me.
AYANO: Yeah, yeah.
AYANO:
You know, I think tango is a very easy dance. Anybody can dance. Anybody can physically dance. But as an existing dancer, as a dancer who's already into it, you can also keep getting better, if you want to. I just feel like sometimes you go into a plateau and you feel like, “oh, this is it.” And it's just, “okay, I can just have fun.” But when you keep investing, there will be a breakthrough. Like, it was always like that for me. You know, because it feels like the wall is so thick that it seems you're just there. And this is my whole world. And it's like, okay, just keep going through the loop, going through the loop, going through the loop, going through the loop. But then there is a moment that [that goes], boom, and it's like, “oh, I didn't know there was a garden up here!” Like, on the rooftop. Okay. And then I'm on the garden rooftop, and I'm really enjoying the view very much right here. But because I've already came through so many floors, I know there's another one up there. And I'm excited for that. And it's going to come, I know it's going to come. At the same time, I'm enjoying where I am. Like, as a beginner, you enjoy your stage. As an intermediate, you enjoy your stage, and there - and so on and so forth. But I want to say, like, “don't give up. There’s a wonderful world out there.”
LIZ: What if you're not enjoying it? You probably had some low moments when you broke your knee. Do you have any advice for people who are into it, but they're going through a period where they're not feeling as enthusiastic?
AYANO: There are many aspects of tango. Like I said, there are three pillars of tango. Music, dancing, and poetry. You don't have to stick to one. Like, when I broke my knee, I got into music because I started- that's the only thing I can really do. Really. I got into just observing and learning about how Felipe was teaching. And that got me into more perspective of the leaders, ‘cause many of the classes talk more about the leaders. And I got into the community aspect because I was helping at the door, you know, just meeting people. It was fun, like, it's better than just sitting and doing nothing and feeling miserable for myself. [LAUGHS] Sometimes, giving helps. When you feel like you're not receiving anything, “oh, I'm not getting the dances that I want,” blah, blah, blah. Maybe change, switch perspective and give something that you can. Even just saying hi to someone that you don't know. Helping with a chair. I don't know - it doesn't matter. Maybe it will change your luck, change your karma. And somebody would always appreciate you reaching out. If you are in a small community and you have nobody to dance with, you're really bored, start teaching beginner classes. Find a cohort of four people, six people, I don't know. Teach them what you know. You'll be surprised what comes out of that.
LIZ SCRIPT:
May we all find it in ourselves to unmoor our little boats and set off in search of ways to give and grow.
Thanks to Ayano and to the Internet Archive, where I found the recordings featured in this episode, first “Ninguna,” written by Raúl Fernández Siro with lyrics by Homero Manzi and performed by Angel D'Agostino y Su Orquesta Típica with Angel Vargas; second, “Amarras,” written by Carlos Marchisio with lyrics by Carmelo Santiago and performed by Alberto Castillo y su Orquesta Típica. And of course, you can find English translations of both songs and other supporting information in the show notes.
[MUSIC STARTS - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Aquellos besos que perdí
al presentir que no me amaba,
fueron tormentas de dolor
llenas de horror.
¡Hoy no soy nada!
Yo sólo sé que caí,
que pené y que rodé
al abismo de un fracaso...
Yo sólo sé que tu amor,
en la burla del dolor,
me persigue paso a paso.
Ahora que sé que no vendrás,
vago sin fin por la recova,
busco valor para partir;
para alejarme... y así
olvidando mi obsesión,
lejos de ti, poder morir.
EPISODE 13:
Love and eye-rolling, with Anthea Okereke
Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: “Viento Norte” written by Juan Carlos Suncho and performed by Sexteto Cristal | Image Credit: John Connatty
ANTHEA:
I don’t think I have an addictive personality. However, I do when it comes to tango. So, I can be an addict but without ruining my health. I love that.
[LAUGHTER]
[MUSIC]
LIZ ID INTRO:
I’m Liz Sabatiuk, and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
LIZ SCRIPT:
Anthea Okereke is the first human of tango I asked for an interview without ever having met her.
I saw her talk about Racism, Inclusivity, and Tango as part of a Facebook Live conversation organized by Tango Round Table, which I’ve linked in the show notes and highly recommend watching in full if you haven’t already. I messaged Anthea and she graciously replied. It took us 6 months to finally set up an interview, and it was so worth the wait.
I had a million questions I wanted to ask Anthea, and in an hour and a half, we barely scratched the surface. In that surface scratch, we glimpsed an intriguing expanse of similarities and differences. It reminds me of something Juan Cantone said in episode six of this podcast: "It's beautiful to realize that we are very different, and not so different at the same time.”
This interplay between relatability and surprise enriches our interactions in life and in tango. And yet, over and over again I see the same stereotypical portrayal of tango - one that for many of us may be neither relatable nor surprising.
As observed by writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, “the problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story.”
You’ll hear Anthea and I talk about that, along with the ways she’s had to face and overcome stereotypes throughout the course of her tango journey. And speaking of hearing, I’m afraid the interview’s sound isn’t what I wish it were, so you may want to use headphones or find a quiet spot to hear Anthea better.
ANTHEA:
My mom is from Jamaica and my dad is from Nigeria, and they met in Manchester in England in the late ‘60s. So I was born in Manchester and then when I was 2 or 3 we moved to Nigeria ‘cause my dad and his brother had a business that they were going to start. So I had a lot of my formative years there, I guess. And then when I was 13, we came back to England ‘cause my maternal granddad lived here, so we lived with him but my dad was still in Nigeria. So I came back. And of course, culture shock ensued.
LIZ: Yeah, what was that like? I mean I imagine if you moved when you were 2 or 3 you barely remembered.
ANTHEA: Yeah, I mean we did come over a few times during that time and I guess when you’re young that’s just what you’re doing - you don’t really think about these things. But then when I came back at 13 - and we came back in November so it was freezing, so that was shocking - and then I started school after Christmas in January, so, you know, I had to get used to the slang and the culture and, yeah, and also this was in the ‘80s where, you know, overt racism was the thing. Um, and obviously I had a Nigerian accent. But the good thing was because I grew up in Nigeria I didn’t understand racism ‘cause I didn’t grow up with racism ‘cause I grew up in a country where everybody was Black, so I didn’t really know what racism was, so that when they made all these comments I was like ‘what do you mean,” which obviously frustrated them - like "I don’t know what you’re talking about,” which in my adulthood I think is quite funny. But anyway, I soon settled in - ‘cause you adapt when you’re young - found my friends and, yeah, it was good. I went to a nice school, I had great teachers, I had a nice life.
And then, as I got older I realized I wanted to travel. My first big trip was to India. I met a French boy there and he wanted to go to Colombia and I was like hmmm Colombia. And also reminded me that at school, I wasn’t really into British history but when we learned about the Incas and the Aztecs I was like ooooh, I want to know more about these people. I don’t know why…I kind of felt really like they were relatable, I don’t know. Maybe in my past life I was an Inca or an Aztec - I don’t know, I was really into it. I liked the textiles and the stories and the artwork. Anyway, so, came back from India and decided that, yeah, I was gonna go to Latin America. And so 3 years later - no, 6 years later - I did my first trip alone and I flew into Mexico and I flew out of Brazil and in that time I ended up in Buenos Aires, just before Brazil and flying home. I was two weeks in Buenos Aires and in that time I realized “oh my god this place is amazing, I want to live here at some point.”
Came back, found a flier for tango classes in Sheffield and I was like, “hm, this dance - it seems to involve a lot of leg movements and I have legs” ‘cause I’m quite tall and I have long legs, I was like “hm, this could be the dance for me!” ‘Cause I liked how it looked, I liked the music. So I took my first 6 classes, once a week for 6 weeks, and then I had to stop because I was starting a photography course which clashed. So I did those 6 weeks, semi forgot about tango, and then got back into it 3 years later in 2007 when I went to live in Argentina.
LIZ: So you just moved there because you wanted to live there - you just thought it was cool.
ANTHEA: Well… yeah. Pretty much - I didn’t know what I was gonna do…
LIZ: I’ve done things like that and people are always like “What” and I’m like “Why not?” you know? But it’s funny to be on the other end of that question right now.
ANTHEA: Yeah, I have that as well, you know, people are like “You’re so brave!” And it’s kinda like, well it’s not about being brave, it’s about feeling fear and doing it anyway. Um, yeah, I just decided that I was gonna go there and I found, like, a tango house - kind of based myself there and then went on little trips to countries in South America but always came back. So I’d go and spend a bit of time in Bolivia and a bit of time in Peru and then I’d come back. And all through that time I was taking classes and going to milongas and meeting people in the tango community in Buenos Aires and buying my first shoes.
LIZ: Wow, so it was like a traveling-and-tango period. Like, you weren’t working or studying besides tango and the world.
ANTHEA: Yeah, I worked a lot before I left and saved up enough money to have at least a year. I did consequently go back in 2011 to 2015 and I did work. The people who owned the guest house that I stayed in initially, they wanted to go travel and I became very close to them. They kind of were like “Do you you want to come and live in our house and run our guest house and you can live here and we can travel and we know you’re responsible and you speak English and Spanish so you can take care of the guests and we can travel and you don’t have to pay your rent,” so I did that. I went back, again, for 4 more years. And I kind of taught English for business as well at one of the multinational companies there. I was a Maître d' at a milonga on Saturday nights. I did some translations. I did some work in a shoe shop. Yeah, I did lots of things. The thing about Argentina is, or Buenos Aires even, it kind of pulls you in but you probably don’t really know why - it’s for so many different reasons, I guess. I think it’s a mix of, like, the kind of crumbling, the crumbliness of it and then the glamor of it and the people are so warm and, I mean, I’d come from England so when I went there I didn’t get culture shock, I was like “oh, I’m back in Nigeria!” You know, like, people are just very open and warm and friendly. And there’s so much culture there, like literally everybody’s a singer, or a musician, or a dancer, or a writer - all the things that I’m into. And just walking around and just hearing tango music and - ah, I don’t know, there’s just so many things that kind of bump up against each other and shouldn’t be next to each other but they are. And I was just like “I did the right thing here. This is my place - these are my people.”
I just saw tango and heard the music and it was like a visceral thing of "this is what I need to do!” I just love being in the milonga and even the moment when you're walking towards the milonga and you hear the music. Like, especially when you’re not sure if you’re going the right way and you’re like “is it around this corner?” and then you hear the music and you’re like “ah, yes.” There's something about the music and the bandoneon and those long, soft and lamentable strains that just pull me in. ‘Cause I like to wallow in sorrow sometimes, you know - like I love a sad film that makes me cry.
When I try and explain tango to my friends or people that don’t dance, I liken it to surf culture and how surfers have this whole kind of, I don’t like the word lifestyle, but they have this lifestyle and this culture where they’re obsessed and they’re always looking for the perfect wave and, you know, they have their own aesthetic and I kind of liken it to that and people seem to get it. They’re like “ah, okay, I understand now” ‘cause everybody knows about surfers and surf culture, I guess.
LIZ: More movies about that, I guess.
ANTHEA: Exactly. So people know about their obsession, don’t they?
LIZ: Like everyone’s seen, like, Point Break is probably the most famous one, right?
ANTHEA: Exactly. I love that film so much.
LIZ: I mean, one of the reasons I started this podcast was, like, I just get very annoyed by how oversimplified I feel like the portrayal of tango usually is, and the stereotype of–
ANTHEA: What do you mean?
LIZ: Like, if you google “tango” it’s all the same picture. You know, like, the dude in the fedora and the dark suit and the woman in the red dress.
ANTHEA: What’s with the fedora? Like, who is wearing a fedora?
LIZ: No one I know. And it’s like, no disrespect to red dresses or fedoras, but I just don’t want people to think, that, I don’t think it has to be that simple. Like, it has enough complexity and richness that it doesn’t need to be one postcard and only attract people who want to look like that postcard, you know?
ANTHEA: Yeah, for sure. I think because it’s still quite niche, because a lot of people don’t quite know what tango is ‘cause they think of ballroom, don’t they? When you say “tango,” people think of ballroom tango. So maybe there isn’t enough stuff out there. You know, like, people are always saying to me, “oooh, do you have to get really dressed up?" and I’m like “no, it depends - you can go in jeans depending on the event and, you know, whatever.” But I just feel like it’s a very, I don’t know, it is more of a subculture isn’t it than a lot of other dances, I guess. I’m still not sure why that is though. And that’s fine, that’s not a bad thing, you know - whatever. But I just wonder why everybody knows what salsa is and lindy hop…
[LIZ ASIDE] Anthea also dances salsa.
LIZ: Do you feel like people’s understanding of salsa is accurate? ‘Cause I think with tango it’s like I feel like a lot of people have an image in their heads of tango but that image doesn’t match my experience or what I really value about it - you know what I mean?
ANTHEA: What’s the image?
LIZ: Oh, the one I told you about. I feel like people picture the red dress and the - you know, like, vaguely Latin but White European looking people…
ANTHEA: Yeah, I feel like that’s probably because of cinema as well.
LIZ: Yeah, yeah, the cinema backs it up. The cinema backs it up. But I think that’s the vision people have in their heads and, like, I just - it doesn’t resonate with me and so it’s annoying to me as someone who kind of advocates for… Is salsa like that too though? Like, do you feel like people have an image in their heads that’s not accurate, or is it more… I think that I don’t have such a clear stereotype in my mind about what salsa is, other than sort of like, happy.
ANTHEA: No, I think people have more of an image that is nearer to the truth than in tango. Like, I feel like people don’t sexualize salsa as much either. Do you know what I mean? Like, people are always like, when you say tango they’re like “ooooh, do you go with your partner?” and it blows their mind when I’m like “no, you just go and dance with loads of different people” and they’re like “WHAT?!?” And I think people think it’s all about, like, meeting someone and, you know, all of that stuff, which I don’t think is as prevalent in - when you talk to people about salsa they just think about, like, fun, frothy, kind of flirty but not sexual, and everyone thinks everyone in tango is, like, walking off the dancefloor and going to the bedroom. And that leads back into the imagery and the pictures. And ballroom tango as well I guess… So yeah, it’s um, maybe it will change as the years go by and it becomes more part of popular culture, but I think because of the music that’s not gonna happen though, because the music is very specific and very kind of niche. It’s almost like an offshoot of classical music, maybe you could say? So I think it’s not for everyone, maybe. And that is fine - it doesn’t have to be for everyone. But I think the music is why it probably won’t become popular culture.
[MUSIC]
ANTHEA:
I remember being at an event in London and there was a salsa party upstairs and there was tango downstairs and the bar and the cloakroom were downstairs by the tango room. And I was kind of flitting between both… because I always want to recruit more Black girls into tango and all these Black girls were walking down to use the toilet or the bar or the cloakroom. And they were kind of looking into the room like “Oh, what’s that?” and I started talking to them and I was like “you guys need to get involved, because I don’t want to be the only Black girl in the room - it’s getting old.” And they were like “Oh, what is this?” and they looked like they were really interested, you know - they were there for, like, I don’t know, 6-7 minutes. But then one of them was like “why is everybody in there, why is everybody White?” and I think they just look in the room and they’re like well that’s not for me, is it, you know, because there’s nobody in that room that looks like me. And I’m like “Well I’m there! I’m here. Come and join me, my sisters!”
Yeah… I mean, I… I don’t know why that is, but I do know, I mean, I know that there are definite struggles to be had in tango, especially if you’re a woman of color. Because people will often say, well, there are, you know, look at all - there's so-and-so and there’s so-and-so and there’s so-and-so. But the difference is these so-and-sos that they’re pointing out to me are all Black men, and obviously, you know, the thing with tango is that you want masculinity and you want this and you want that, and there is an idea that Black men are uber masculine and they’re very powerful and they’re this and they’re that. And unfortunately - whether or not that is true, I’m not gonna go into that, but it’s a trope - but a lot of these characteristics get placed on the shoulders of Black women. So we're too masculine and we’re too, you know, we’re not elegant enough to be gentle and graceful and tango-like. And, you know, we will be very good at salsa and all the rhythmic dances, but we won’t be good at tango because it’s too intellectual and it’s too elegant.
And that’s like a thing, you know - that’s a thing that happens. And you know, I’ve had people say “Yeah, I bet you’d be really good at salsa.” And I’m like “Well I’m in a milonga right now, so what are you talking about?” So there is this idea that we are these untameable wild beasts who cannot relax into the embrace. And it’s a thing and I don’t know what to do about that. But I do know that, you know, when you’re a non-ambiguously presenting Black woman in tango with short hair who’s also very tall, you’d better be twice as good if you want to get any kind of dances. Like, I’ve been in milongas where I’ve had no dances - for the whole night. Quite often. But there is an issue with tropes and stereotypes. And I think when you’re in the milonga and you’re presenting as I do, you are always going to be a Black woman before you’re a tango dancer.
I’ll give you an example of why I say this. So, I was at an event in Croatia - I’m not gonna mention any names - and I was at the afternoon milonga, which is really fun. And they were playing a D’Arienzo track–
[LIZ ASIDE] That’s Orquesta Juan D’Arienzo.
And I was walking around the dance floor and there was a guy who was, like, humming out the tune and the rhythm, he was kind of, you know, humming it very loudly and as I walked past him, I kinda joined in, ‘cause it’s a really popular tune everybody knows, it’s very easy to hum along to it and I joined in and we probably sang, maybe, let’s say four bars of the song together, right till the end. And as it ended - I sang exactly like he did - and then we got to the end and we both kind of, I don’t know, we high-fived or did some funny stuff. And he looks at me, and he looks into my eyes, and he goes “I really like the African flavor you brought to the song.” And I’m like “I didn’t bring any Africa, I just, I hummed it the same way you did.” And he just ruined that whole moment and I was so mad, I just had to walk away and be like “Yeah, anyway, that was nice thank you bye. I don’t know why you said that.” ‘Cause he just saw me and he saw Africa. And there’s nothing wrong with seeing Africa, but Africa was not involved in that whole interaction, you know. So just things like that - these are things that you have to deal with.
And I feel like, I don’t know what we can do about this, I don’t know how it is in the US, but there is a real, for me, an issue in certain parts of the UK, with how Black women especially will be perceived and how their talents will be perceived. And I know that there are a few women who I used to see around in the scene a few years ago and now they’re not there - because I always used to see them just sitting there, not dancing. And now they’ve gone and I don’t see them anymore, and that’s really sad. Because I feel like if tango was more diverse, it would just be richer and more interesting. You know it’s a shame. It’s a shame.
I think, in my experience, certain nationalities are probably more amenable in their choice of partners than others - and they’re usually nationalities that have a more diverse population, I would say. I just want equity in tango and I do feel like in certain places, certain cities, I have to give myself a pep talk before I go to the milonga, you know. I have to give myself a pep talk, and say, you know, this is what might happen - not that I’m setting myself up for negativity - but I feel like, since Covid I’ve become better at it, but I have to be more like, you know, you might not dance as much as you’d like, but it’s okay, just, you know, don’t internalize it, whatever.
[MUSIC]
LIZ SCRIPT:
It’s clear Anthea has learned a lot since she started her tango journey - about her own learning process and about how she can take care of herself in her ongoing relationship with tango.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
ANTHEA:
The thing about the plateau is after every plateau there’s another peak to climb, isn’t there? And you kind of ascend, and I feel like when I take, like, a really good class or a workshop, I will then be very aware of everything that I wasn’t doing, and because I’m an overthinker, I would overthink it. And then when I’d go into the milonga I would - as a friend of mine coined the term, she called it “tango tense” - and so I would just become blocked. And instead of, you know, ‘cause in a milonga you should just dance, right, you shouldn’t be behaving like you’re in a práctica. But I would go to the milonga and behave like I was in a práctica and be thinking about what I learned and what I should be doing instead of just doing it, because that’s how my mind works. And this could last for two weeks. And for some reason whenever I’m having this issue, it would always be a teacher who would cabeceo me, like “Why are you cabeceoing me right now? Why?” Or it would be someone that I always wanted to dance with, you know, who never looked at me, and suddenly they’re, like, walking from Timbuktu to ask me to dance, and I’m like “Why is this happening?”, which would then exacerbate the issue.
But I think if you are aware of what’s in your mind, eventually it kind of sinks into your muscles and, you know, and you practice, and you kind of get there. And then one day, maybe two weeks, maybe a month later, you go into the milonga and you’re like “What did my leg just do? I didn’t know my leg could do that! What is going on?” And that would be amazing and then you could rest a little bit. And then I wouldn’t take a class for, like, another two or three weeks because I’d just want to enjoy my newfound freedom. [LAUGHTER] And that would happen really often, actually. So now I know what’s going on, I’m just like, okay, I’m just gonna go to the milonga. It might be a hot mess or not, but whatever, it is what it is. And that’s the nice thing about, you know, 15 years in tango, ‘cause now I can manage my expectations and I know that when I get blocked, it’s for a good reason, because my body’s trying to figure out, and open the pathways… My brain and my body are trying to kind of link up with each other.
I think because of lockdown I had a bit of a break from the emotional anguish that I would sometimes feel, being a black woman in tango and all of the things that entails. I had a bit of freedom from tango politics, which do exist, whether we want to admit it or not. And I kind of enjoyed that freedom because I couldn’t go and dance - because nobody was dancing - so I had a bit of freedom from that and I guess I got a bit of healing from the kind of stress, I guess, emotional stress that I sometimes had to deal with. And that meant that I kind of was able to remove myself a little bit from the wanting so much from tango and sometimes not getting it and then getting sad about not getting what I wanted because I was so addicted. I mean, I’m still addicted but, you know, healthily so, I’d say - or maybe not, I don’t know.
And now I feel like I can just take tango for what it is, and sometimes I might roll my eyes at some of the stuff involved in tango - there might be some eye rolling going on - but while I’m doing the eye-rolling I’m still making a heart with my hands and eye-rolling through it, ‘cause I still love it, but I’m like “tango, you’re a hot mess sometimes and you need to just do one, okay?” I still love it. So right now I’m just chilling and I’m kind of rolling my eyes a little bit at tango and all the politics and all the, just all the stuff. And you know, when you’re in a room with all these people, and everyone’s got expectations and angst and insecurities and passions and sometimes - ‘cause I’m quite open to people’s energy - for me it’s a bit overwhelming sometimes, so I’m like “I don’t have that space right now, I haven’t got the energy to go into a room and have all of this energy bouncing around.” Like, I feel like I don’t want to do that. So I’m eye-rolling. I’m eye-rolling - I’m eye-rolling, Liz, I’m eye-rolling. But at the same time I’m like “let me just put some songs on on YouTube,” because I love it so much and I want to listen to it. Do you know what I mean?
So I’m wintering. I’m wintering, which is eye-rolling, but I still love it so much. And I get really moody when my friends go “are you still dancing tango?” I’m like “yes I’m still dancing tango. I’m never not gonna be dancing tango - stop asking me that question.” [LAUGHTER] But I’m always so shocked when they’re like “are you still dancing tango,” I’m like “have you not heard my passion - why are you asking me this? Stop asking me this, I’ll be dancing until I die.” Yeah, I mean, tango is definitely therapy, I don’t want to sound like one of those people - whoever those people are. But I definitely think it’s therapy and I definitely think it enables you to deal with all of your stuff - not all of your stuff, but a lot of your stuff. And, you know, there are highs and there are lows, and when the lows happen I just open some Malbec… [LAUGHTER] Probably shouldn’t be doing that when the lows happen but whatever. Yeah, I think I’ve definitely dealt with some stuff and I’ve definitely grown because of tango and become, I would definitely say, a better person and a more resilient person. And I’ve met amazing people as well.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Here’s to taking whatever time we have to get to know each other - and ourselves.
Thanks to Anthea for her passion and insight and to Sexteto Cristal - a modern orchestra based in Germany that plays classic Argentine tango - for permission to feature their recording of “Viento Norte” by Juan Carlos Suncho. Turns out that a love for this song is one of those many things Anthea and I have in common.
[MUSIC]
EPISODE 12:
The art of the tango DJ, with Nel Mastrodomenico
Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music:Toda mi Vida” written by José María Contursi y Aníbal Troilo and performed by Aníbal Troilo y su Orquesta Típica with Francisco Fiorentino | Image Credit:Dos Orillas Practica de Tango Buenos Aires
[MUSIC]
LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk, and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
NEL:
When I arrived here, I stopped growing gray hair.
LIZ: Wow. So how long have you been living in Buenos Aires?
NEL: Almost five years. No, I'd say four years and a half.
LIZ: And you love it.
NEL: Yeah, I'm pretty happy here. At the beginning, I wanted to be here and just feel how was the tango in the capital of it. It was my first time here, and it’s still the same - this is my first time in Argentina, but it's been four years and a half.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Nel Mastrodomenico paid a visit to Buenos Aires four and a half years back and decided to stay. But his love for tango started long before he made his way to its birthplace, when he still lived in his native Colombia.
NEL:
In Colombia, there is a listening culture for tango - like, many people listen to this music, especially in Medellin and in those cities and towns where they cultivate the crop coffee. And in 1935, Gardel died there in Colombia in a plane crash, the 24th of June.
[LIZ ASIDE] That's Carlos Gardel, a tango singer so legendary that his December 11th birthday, which he shared with tango musician Julio de Caro, is now celebrated as the International Day of Tango.
NEL:
And that was like a mark for us to be tangueros. It created a myth around him, but a myth in Colombia, like, we started to be tangueros practically because of him.
When I started to listen to tango, I was 20. I used to listen to a lot of rock from Argentina. It's very popular in Latin America, the rock and roll from this country. And they always spoke about tango stuff in their songs. So that created in my mind some curiosity about tango. And one day in a magazine, they had a promotion and they were giving a CD, in 1995. I got this CD of Carlos Gardel and this was my first contact with tango. And I have it here because after all this time, my sister had it and I asked her to send it to me
with a friend that was traveling from Bogotá to Buenos Aires. So I started with this CD. I fall in love with this, and progressively I started to listen, listen, listen, and more and more. And then I started to be a collector and buy vinyls and learn more and more.
I didn't dance at that time and I wasn't really interested in dancing. It wasn't something that I was thinking that I was going to do. But while I was in Australia and I was pretty bored, I said, okay, let's see what happens with tango here. I started to have dancing lessons there with an Australian teacher.
LIZ: So you went to Australia with a programming job?
NEL: No, no, I went there to just study English and then see what happens.
LIZ: Okay, but do you have a connection to Australia? Like, it seems like an interesting jump.
NEL: No, I had a friend that was living there and he encouraged me to go there and have a life - a better life there, yeah? You know, like the American dream, but the Australian dream. Something like that.
LIZ: Got it.
NEL: But I couldn't make that happen, the Australian dream, and I’m having here now the Argentinian dream around tango, which is actually better for me. So when I was there in this situation where I was just working and working and working and not doing anything amusing or having fun or even making friends, I decided to go back to Colombia and get my life back. But before that, I searched what was the tango move[ment] in Australia, and the only thing they had was milongas. They didn't have a bar like we have in Colombia. We have bars where you can just go and listen to tango and drink alcohol. That's just in Colombia. You can't find a place like that even here. It's just like a small bar where they play tango the whole time. You learn a lot about the story, the history of tango, the orchestras, what's good, what's not that good, hm?
And then progressively I started to go to the milongas there and prácticas. I made friends with the organizers and I told them that I had tango vinyls. And one day one of them said, why you don't bring your turntable here and you play a few tandas with us?
[LIZ ASIDE] tandas are the sets of three to four songs that make up a tango social dance event.
NEL: And I said, why - yes, why not? And after a while I was playing the music with vinyls in Australia for their milongas, and I started to be a DJ there. And it was pretty easy to me because I knew the music.
LIZ: And do you still use vinyls to DJ?
NEL: Yeah, sometimes, but if they pay what it's worth for that. Because it is like two days of work just to do one gig. Because I have to prepare the turntables, a bag with a hundred vinyls or so. You know, those things are pretty heavy and a couple of mixers. And sometimes I even take those speakers because I have the whole sound system. But most of the time I just play the music with my laptop. What I do is that I'm digitizing all the vinyls in high resolution. And I'm some sort of audiophile, yeah? Obsessed with sound, with trying to make this sound the most natural possible as the recording when they were made. I just clean the files a little bit, not much. Most of the files sound pretty good and, as they are in high resolution, it makes a massive difference in the milonga. People feel the quality of the sound.
[MUSIC]
NEL:
At the beginning, there were the orchestras playing in the dance. And once they could use recordings, they started to play those and created the tandas. And let's say that in the sixties, seventies, eighties, they were just using shellacs, vinyls or cassettes. And then in the eigh - eighties no, let's say nineties or the beginning of this century - they started to use CDs and then MP3s and that's the gap. When you have a computer with lots of MP3 files that some of them have really poor quality, because when they digitized all those files or all that music to be converted just in MP3, there was a lot of missing sound, yeah? And it was part also of what you had to play the music. If you had a computer that had a small storage device, you couldn't put lots of music there. But now we have computers with big storage devices and really fast ones. And it's making a switch where you can have good quality files and play better.
But there is another side of the coin. There are a lot of music that is in the streaming platforms like Spotify, yeah. And there are a lot of DJs that are just using Spotify to make a playlist and play from there. And when you do that, you have the risk of not having good files and some are faster than the original recording. Because they were speeded up to put more files, let's say, in the side of a vinyl, to put more songs in a CD. But also because - [LAUGHS] this is a very funny thing. In 1935, when Gardel died, tango had a like, big impact here. People didn't want to dance. They were really sad. And then D'Arienzo, Juan D'Arienzo, he made what he did with a fast rhythm, staccato. And he brought people back to the dancing floor. And the companies wanted the other orchestras to play as fast as D'Arienzo. And even when they made a song or recorded a song that wasn't that fast, they speeded up the songs in the recordings. Even with D'Arienzo, no, like, even if their songs were already fast, they made them faster than that. [LAUGHS]
LIZ SCRIPT:
I think it’s worth noting that DJing in tango can mean different things for different people. For example, as a dance teacher I used to organize prácticas, where students could practice dancing in an informal, social environment. I played music for these events on my laptop or my phone, drawing from a modest digital collection, which I’m pretty sure includes some of those sped up recordings Nel mentioned, and even used a Spotify playlist once or twice. In other words, I have DJed, but I don’t consider myself A DJ.
Nel approaches tango DJing as an art. Rather than queuing up a playlist and hitting the dance floor like yours truly, Nel chooses each song he plays one by one, including the clips of non-tango music known as cortinas, which separate the tandas. To do this, he draws from a deep knowledge of tango music and a developing knowledge of the dance.
NEL:
One thing is just going there and putting a playlist and press click on the play button, and probably just controlling the volume, changing a couple of songs in the go. But I think the function of every artist must be making happy its audience. And that's what I do. I play the best tango songs that I consider that are also very danceable. I use different criteria to build the tandas. I use some rules that are established now, like the same orchestra, the same singer and the same time, like maximum five years, six years of difference between recordings.
But I also think a lot in the sound quality of each song - I want all the songs in the tanda to sound similar - and also the words of the song. The words are pretty important to me because they have an impression in the melody, depending on the intention of the song. What I mean is that if we are listening or speaking about a tango that is telling you a story about a neighborhood, it's very different than speaking about grief or a heart broken.
[MUSIC STARTS - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Hoy, después de tanto tiempo
De no verte, de no hablarte
Ya cansado de buscarte
Siempre, siempre
Siento que me voy muriendo
Por tu olvido, lentamente
Y en el frío de mi frente
Tus besos no dejarás
[MUSIC FADES]
NEL:
Playing vinyls is practically like improvising in the go. Let's say I got an orchestra and I say my first tanda will be Troilo.
[LIZ ASIDE] That's Aníbal Troilo, a musician so beloved that his birthday, July 11th, is now celebrated as National Bandoneon Day in Argentina and whose 1941 recording of “Toda Mi Vida" is featured throughout this episode.
NEL: And I have two or three vinyls of Troilo and I just choose a few songs from there. But I need to play one song in one turntable and the next one in the other turntable, and that's the process that repeats the whole time in the milonga. I do the same when I'm DJing with the laptop. I use a software that is similar to when you have two turntables and a mixer. Play one song here and the other song in the other side. And I'm choosing every song in the go as well. And the cortinas too. And that creates a, a really good magic. People are very happy the whole night - they don't stop dancing. And sometimes they ask me to stop playing good music for them to have a little rest. Can you imagine that?
LIZ: That's a good sign.
NEL: Yeah, it is.
LIZ: But some of that is like a collective - like, that’s, that's partly the atmosphere, right? Because you can't expect every single person to like every song on an objective level. But you're creating sort of a critical mass, I guess. Of people enjoying themselves.
NEL: I don't want to be pretentious, but when you do the things with your heart, you play with good sound, and you play good music, most people - not all of them - but most people enjoy a lot.
LIZ: And do you have songs that you would say that are not, like, on the top-100 list of danceable tangos that you think are really great for dancing, actually, and that you play at milongas and people love dancing to them, but they haven't, like, caught on outside of Buenos Aires, for example?
NEL: Yeah, of course. You know what? I think the function of the tango DJ or person that starts to put the music, it's not to show how much they know about the music, but most to show people what they can dance and enjoy. But I think that's the combination of being also a dancer. Now I'm dancing more, enjoying dancing more and taking lessons. And for me, the most important part of it is just going to the embrace. I want to connect with that person, with the music, and even the whole group. Because when you dance, you're not dancing just with that person that is in the embrace. You're dancing with the other ones too. And it's important to create a good space of respect because we're sharing the floor.
The most important part for me is connection, feeling like my nervous system is connected to the other ones. And I can't even with my eyes closed feel everything in her body or his body. And it's spiritual - it's pretty spiritual when you reach that point. Sometimes you don't even need to move. And sometimes you are in milongas here that are super crowded and you can't even move. [LAUGHS]
LIZ: You just commune.
NEL: Yeah. But I have friends that are different. They just want to do movements.
They don't care about the music. And it's normal.
LIZ: Okay, but everybody in Buenos Aires is supposed to care about the music.
NEL: Nah.
LIZ: That's what we say outside of Buenos Aires, that everybody is listening to the music there. [LAUGHS]
NEL: No, no. You can tell that a lot of people care about the music, but not most of them, yeah? So I have many, many friends in the milonga, and most of them, they tell me that “I don't know what orchestra you're playing.” Some people don't even listen to the words, even if they're Spanish speakers. Most of them just want to dance. But even if they don't know the music, even if they don't understand the words, or even if they don't know what orchestra is sounding, they unconsciously feel that the music is better when you're playing good tandas, when the sound is better, yeah? Because I think that, for example, when the sound is better, you can go deeper and embrace and relax more and feel more into the music, even unconsciously. Because you are, if you are with your eyes closed, you can even feel like you are in the middle of the orchestra.
LIZ: You're, like, immersed. You're immersed in the music. You don't have to be listening for what note is next.
NEL: Exactly. When I'm playing the music, what I want is people to be happy and go happy to their places, to their homes. When you do that with love, you take care of all those details, no? What the tanda is telling to those people that are dancing. And most of them don't care about the words, but even if they're not caring, the music has that impression, yeah? Every song has that impression, that printing of love, or the neighborhood, or friendship. Things that are always there in tango.
With those elements, I can say that what I do is magic. And I play the music here in a milonga every Saturday, and the place is pretty nice - we have like a family there. Everyone that works in that place is really beautiful. It's like an underground local… And everyone at the end - we finish very, very very late, like almost at 6am every Saturday. Everyone goes very happy to their places and sometimes they are still wanting to dance.
[MUSIC STARTS - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Sé que mucho me has querido
Tanto, tanto como yo
Pero, en cambio, yo he sufrido
Mucho, mucho más que vos
No sé porque te perdí
Tampoco sé cuándo fue
Pero a tu lado dejé
Toda mi vida
Y hoy que estás tan lejos de mí
Y has conseguido olvidar
Soy un pasaje de tu vida, nada más
[MUSIC FADES]
NEL:
Troilo used to say, “there is not new or old tango, there is just good tango.” But there are a lot of things in recent tango recordings that make it a bit difficult to process, yeah? Because we are used to listen to tango that was recorded in the forties, or before, or probably in the fifties and sixties, yeah? But in those times, there were no computers, and it's an appreciation I have, but I think that once the computers started to be in the recording systems, everything changed. It sounds different, sounds, like, more brilliant, more metallic. It's like this process that we're doing at this moment. Talking through this software converts everything in a binary code. And when you do that to music, it changes something. You change a sound vibration for a code that needs to be processed by a computer, a computer brain, computer processor - and then become, again, a vibration. And it's pretty different.
LIZ: So something gets lost in translation there.
NEL: Exactly. Yeah. And it is, because to stream those things, it needs to be compressed, and the compression now is pretty good, but the brain notices that, yeah? If I play an instrument beside you, it's very different than you hear through your phone, or through Facebook, or Instagram, or whatever, you know? And people who know about this, they say that even the most digital advanced recording system can't be better than a vinyl, a good vinyl from those times where everything was recorded in analog equipment with magnetic tapes. And I can hear that or experience that when I bring someone and they listen to my vinyls. Instantly, they feel the difference. When you show that to someone with a good equipment like this - because that's important as well. If you're going to play a vinyl, you need to have good equipment - otherwise, it's better to use a CD or digital media. But most people, when they come here and they listen to something, they're amazed with just a few seconds of what they're listening to.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Nel’s reverence for Golden Age tango goes beyond recording technology. In his interview, he described a gap he perceives between the formative music of the nineteen thirties, forties and fifties and much of the modern tango he’s heard. Nel made it clear that this gap is subjective, based on how he feels when he listens, but he attributes it to the historical gap of several decades when tango lay dormant in Argentina and Uruguay in the wake of military dictatorships and rock n’ roll’s explosion.
NEL:
In the sixties, like, a lot of musicians started to do other things because they had to survive, yeah? And I would say that practically in the eighties and nineties, nobody was playing tango in Buenos Aires. And then when dancing became popular again, after that small revolution that was made in the nineties and the beginning of the century, it started to grow up. And I think we're living, like, a new era where tango is growing again.
LIZ: Definitely.
NEL: Yeah. And it's a good moment to encourage people to go deeper.
LIZ SCRIPT:
Here’s to letting our dreams lead - and going deeper.
Thanks to Nel and to the Internet Archive, where I found the recording that accompanies this episode, “Toda Mi Vida,” by José María Contursi and Aníbal Troilo, performed by Aníbal Troilo y su Orquesta Típica with Francisco Fiorentino.
[MUSIC]