TRANSCRIPT ~ EPISODE 25

EPISODE 25: Free-heeling, with Scott Boddye

Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: "Loca" composed by Manuel Jovés, arranged and recorded by Tango Bardo | Image Credit: Kappu Chino

SCOTT:
Probably a song that goes well with, with me, because I always think I'm a little bit crazy, is "Loca."

LIZ: Okay. [LAUGHING]

SCOTT: Because I am. [BOTH LAUGH]

LIZ: Very good. I think Tango Bardo has-

SCOTT: For my crazy life, my crazy look, and now with Mundo Tango, I'm, I'm definitely a bit crazy.

[MUSIC]

LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk, and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.

LIZ SCRIPT:
That was Scott Boddye, a social dancer and world traveler, also known as "Scott, the Tango Nomad."

SCOTT:
I spend about six months in Buenos Aires, so that's kind of home base. But otherwise, I, I love traveling. I love, you know, jumping into new communities and dancing with them and finding new friends. And food, the food is always amazing everywhere. And just the different cultures. A lot of people ask if I'll ever stop, and for me, it's, why? What is there to stop for, necessarily, right? It's to find and build that home, maybe-

LIZ: And how would you know? How would you know what you'll be doing?

SCOTT: Exactly. Yeah. So I'm still this exploring spirit, ready for more.

My parents are both from California. Grandma's from Puerto Rico, so I've got some, some Latin stuff going on. I grew up in California, Oregon, and Arizona. Um, I ended up going to, I think, eleven different schools. So even growing up, I was used to being kind of all over the place and never having, like, super close friends. So I think that maybe prepared me for tango. You know, we have all of these acquaintances, you know, whether you're at home or you travel, you know, that we've met over the years. And then kind of the funny thing, too, is... Now that I've been a nomad, I've been spending more time with my parents, more kind of concentrated time, right? So, like, two, three weeks at a time. So I'm getting to know them more and getting to know them more as, as friends. So we started sharing more stories and this and that. And I'm finding out that apparently my dad was also a nomad, but just going through California. So he'd go up and down California for a number of years, doing all kinds of different jobs and staying with friends. So nomading is in my blood, apparently. [BOTH LAUGH]

I graduated from university. And that's where I actually started tango, was in university in Arizona State with Daniela Borgialli.
And then I moved to New York, was there for about five years, and then San Francisco for about five. In July of '21, I decided to just go away for a month and a half, just to see friends and travel. And without being... I didn't have any intention or even idea of being a nomad, but it ended up coming out of this, you know, idea that out of the pandemic, we all felt, you know, in our space and I was already kind of... I loved traveling before. And I think the pandemic really drove me to want to do more of it. And so when I left, it just, you know, it felt right. When I got back to San Francisco, after that first trip, I had already planned, you know, like, the next five or something cities I was gonna go to. So, I only gave myself a week to be there. And the more I thought about it, like, getting it from the apartment to a van, to a storage unit, and then worrying about how long it would be there... And who knows, you know, when I'll be done, quote, unquote, with being a nomad - maybe it won't fit in with where I am or what I'm doing. And so I finally said, "I'm done, I don't need any of it." So I called the garbage guy and he came over and for $450, he took away my life - my whole adult life at that point. And for me, it's great. It's a great feeling to not be burdened by the physical things.

I did, unfortunately, have to break up with my girlfriend at the time, um, who was a tango dancer - all of my relationships have been tango dancers, actually, um, before and after. I was with that partner for eight years. And before that, I was with another for five. And I was married to that one. And-

LIZ: So you got married young, though, right?

SCOTT: Yeah, I got married very young. Yes. And I met her in tango in Arizona. So I kind of went- you know, um, and had these long relationships for a long time. So being out of that, I, I'm very happy to be alone.

LIZ: Yeah.

SCOTT: You know, because I hadn't been before. Before her, I was with my parents.

LIZ: So, and it's only been like three, it's been three or four years that you've been living this way?

SCOTT: Three and a half years, yeah.

LIZ: Three and a half years. I mean, not "only." Like, I'm sure a lot's happened in those years, but it's also not like 20 years. You know what I mean?

SCOTT: No. Yeah. It's not that long in the grand scheme of things, no. Not at all.

I had a great life in, in San Francisco and in New York. I wouldn't change anything about what I did during those times. But now on this other side, it's- I don't necessarily want that stability.

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
Scott may not be looking for stability right now, but he clearly appreciates the stable support he's experienced from the tango community ever since he started dancing as a student at Arizona State University with Daniela Borgialli, who you can learn more about in the show notes.

SCOTT:
The university wanted everybody to be kind of culturally diverse, so go take a dance class, an art class, a language class - something. And when I found tango, that was it. But working with Daniela was a lot of fun. She was a great teacher in that she tried to really get everybody to do both roles. You know, just test it out, play with it, see how you like it. And I loved it. She had two classes, her level one and level two, and there was probably at least 60 kids in her level 1 and 35 in her level 2. And just trying to wrangle that many people, and then college kids on top of it [LAUGHING], it's incredible. And we had homework. You know, you had to go to the milonga. You had to do a write-up. You had to write a paper. You had to do a final project, you know, all these things to actually get credit for.

[LIZ ASIDE] Quick side note: As far as I'm aware, just a handful of universities in the United States offer tango classes for credit like Scott experienced. Student clubs, on the other hand, are actually a pretty common way to encounter tango while studying in the U.S.

SCOTT: And we had a club as well, so I was very active with that. We also had our own little practicas and kind of bigger milongas. And, of course, I was, you know, helping - the blind leading the blind - I was doing some teaching there. And we actually ended up going as a group of students down to Buenos Aires and that was my first time in 2008. And I started with classes in 2007, so just about a year after, and she's like, "alright, well, let's all go down to Buenos Aires and show you what it really is all about."

LIZ: She took you? Nice.

SCOTT: Yeah. I've always been community-minded and I think that's probably something that was instilled in me at this young age of dancing with Daniela is, you know, she encouraged us to go to the milongas and dance with everybody. You know, because we had the college kids and then we had, you know, the community that was actually living in Phoenix and had been dancing for a while. And she was always like, "go dance with them." [LAUGHING] That's how you get better.

So as I moved on, you know, then moving after I graduated to New York and finding community there and trying to be part of it in different ways and bring people together. And then same thing in San Francisco. I even created some practicas and milongas and going to many of the other milongas around the Bay Area, which is kind of difficult if you don't have a car. And then with traveling, you know, exploring all these different communities, I think because of tango, it makes it so easy, you know? It's- because it's our common language - with the movement, with the music, with the codes of the milonga - like, this is our base. So then we have this opportunity to jump in faster into meeting these people. It's not as scary, right, as, as it would be if you were to go just to a bar or something. So for me, it's, it's huge, you know, and I have so much fun with it. And they immediately invite me to, to all kinds of things, you know, "let's go to dinner after the milonga at 3 a.m." Um...

LIZ: So, so is it fair to say that tango is basically your definition of community? [LAUGHING]

SCOTT: Yes, yes, very much so. Even, even talking to my dad, you know, he, he's a bit of a hermit up in the mountains in California. And he mentioned to me the other day, "you know, I've never really heard of community besides you and when you talk about tango." Um, but there's so many communities as well, you know, that I wonder- of course, with the dancing, you know, salsa, swing, that there's community there. Or, like, I scuba dive a little bit, you know. So is there a community around that? I don't quite know. Like, I know more communities are out there, but in the same kind of space, realm as tango? I wonder if there is. Because I think we, we all like that it is smaller, and that it is- you have to put more effort and energy into it. It's not an easy thing to do. So I think that that brings that bar up a little bit more. And we all kind of tend to trust people who have- who are better dancers, who have been in it a long time, because we see that that similarity that we have, you know, that we have all been through this. We've all put a lot of time-

LIZ: That's something you share, something you have in common with them.

SCOTT: Exactly.

LIZ: That they've invested time in, in their craft.

SCOTT: Exactly. At times, I'm, I'm super jealous of my parents because they went to, like, the same school together, and so they have that long-term friendship, but then also with their other friends from kindergarten to high school, they went with the same kids. So they've been friends for, you know, 70 years, 65 years, something like this. So I am jealous in that respect that, yes, it would be nice to have that type of super-close, long-term relationship. But, um, you know, I think it it has been kind of created in, in not exactly the same way with tango, but having relationships with people where, you know, you have this intense time together and maybe you don't see each other for years and then the next time you do it, it clicks back together.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Today, the global tango community is what helps Scott feel at home all over the world. It's also the inspiration for Mundo Tango, a project Scott started after he was laid off from the remote job as an information technology manager that first made his nomadic lifestyle possible.

SCOTT:
For me, community has been a huge part of my life with tango. And with Mundo Tango it's been a huge inspiration for it. We have this incredible community around the world. So why wouldn't we have our own social platform for tango, you know, where we can bring our ideas all together into one place where we can make it easier for people who are in it to find the right information, to find the right people, um, to be more connected. And having the same types of conversations-

[LIZ ASIDE] Same types of conversations referring to me sharing with Scott my long-term goal to leave Facebook.

SCOTT: -of, you know, we're on Facebook because there isn't another option and we're only on it because of tango. This is a common thing around the world. At the same time, some people are they are hindered as well that they would like to post more tango stuff. But because of their life, they can't. So maybe because of their work or their family or their culture or whatever it might be, that being seen as a dancer, it's not seen as appropriate. So they stop themselves from posting good things that are happening, you know, either questions or comments about tango or images or videos. And at the same time, when you grow in your tango, you meet so many people, especially when you get to a point - and I think everybody does - where they get tired of their community. So then they want to go travel to that marathon or check out that other city. So then we start to meet all these people. So how do we effectively remember who all of our acquaintances are? You know, because it could be that you meet them next week or 10 years from now. So connection is a huge piece for me with this, um, allowing for more opportunities for people to remember who others are, which then also leads to connection to those individual communities. So, each city that has- starts to have tango dancers in it, where- you know, in the registration form, it's where do you live or where do you dance tango the most? The local people will be added so that you could start to see, you know, who are the organizers, teachers, DJs, photographers, et cetera, along with groups for that community and events for that community on a map. And with the ability to filter. It will be free to start, but there will be Google Ads. If you can afford it, there will be a subscription fee that will get rid of those ads, but will have ads that I place or ads that other tango professionals place, which is great for them. You know, if you're a clothing designer, shoe designer, you are creating a marathon, um, you're a teacher, you are then marketing directly to your clientele that you want versus right now, when you place an ad on Facebook, like, good luck, if you get to the right people. Right now, it's a very robust platform, but it is more focused on connecting us all together back with our friends, you know, that we have on, on Facebook and Instagram, and then also showing off the cities as well - that have all that information and you can follow cities if you go there a lot. I figure we need the social piece first so that we can all come together and then we can add other interesting features for these more specific types of use cases. 

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
Alongside the nomadic lifestyle and international tango network Scott's been cultivating in recent years, he has also cultivated a distinctive image, which often combines elements conventionally associated with men - like suits - with elements conventionally associated with women - like painted nails and jewelry. Scott also loves to dance as both a leader and a follower in the high-heeled sandals often associated with women in the following role. Since Scott usually dances in mainstream tango spaces where conventional gender norms still dominate, these choices tend to get people's attention - and for him, so far, that's been a good thing.

SCOTT:
I'm, I'm, this big question mark for everyone when I walk into a room, um, which is kind of fun, you know, in my mind that that I am this weird, interesting creature that has just walked into this room and, and in some places something that most people have never seen before.

With the heels it's because of this art form. I don't need to wear them, but when I first put 'em on, it was like going from a shitty car - whatever that is for you - to a Ferrari. Like, I finally felt free and I finally felt like I could actually move, which was so much fun, you know, because I'd been dancing in flats for my entire tango life. So to be able to really use all the technique that I had been, you know, training and doing for years and really feel how it should be in, in heels, it was great. I would have done it much sooner, I think. I, I'd been looking for heels for a long time, but being in the States at that time, I, I couldn't find any designers that that offered to do custom shoes. Because I'm, I'm a 42-43 and the highest I could ever find was 41. So, you know, I could not get shoes until I finally came down to Buenos Aires for the first time on my nomadic life, um, in January of '22 and I got the heels in March of '22 and it was, it was then that it was like "well I'm here, I might as well give it a try finally," you know? Um, and, yeah, that was that was it for me. I, I fell in love. It's opened up a whole other kind of essence for me in, in the way I dance, so it's this other exploration and, and it takes, you know, a level of, you know, of "I don't care what other people think." You know, because there's a lot of stigma around it, so it's, it's getting over that and not- and it's this whole- like I said earlier, this idea of, I just, I can't focus on that, you know, because if I focus too much on what other people think - and I think a lot of people could use this - if you focus too much on, on the external and what other people think, then, then you're going to be blocked in so many ways.

And I was lucky that transitioning to heels for leading wasn't that hard for me. Are there changes that need to be made? Yes, of course. Am I an expert in it? No, not by any means. You know, there's, there's still a lot to learn, but, uh, you know, I, I'm just here to have fun with it. You know, I, I love to dance. I, I want to explore both sides of it and I think for teachers who don't offer that or push that on their students more, I think it's, it's a problem. For me it has created so much empathy and understanding for what both sides go through and I think it, it has brought, um, you know, this, this other create- creativeness for me.

And with the the jewelry and everything, and the hair even, and the hair was the first thing to go, uh, even before I was a nomad, I, I did this in March of '21, um, just to be fun. You know, it was the pandemic - why not? If I don't like it I can just buzz it all off. Um, and blue is my favorite color so that just made it easy.

So all of this all kind of leads me to creating this image of a nomad that is able to stand out a bit more. I think because of what I've done, when I go to a space, I get that, that one tanda and then everybody is like, "oh who's that new person?" Versus when people normally travel, you know it's, it's hard to be seen, you know, because especially in larger communities where I often travel to, when you go out to dance, you're there to hang out with your friends, the people that you know, that you dance with all the time, you're not always looking for new people. So by doing this, I think I've- it's one way to help break that barrier. And so I've, I've leaned hard into it. [LAUGHING] You know, I just keep growing in different ways, which, you know, personal growth is always a good thing and I've had a lot of fun with this. But it's been- it started unintentional and then as, as it kind of progressed it became more and more intentional. It also comes out of this, this feeling of, you know, it's a dance. I don't care what you think, I don't care what the public thinks. I'm doing this for me. If you get inspired by it, that's awesome, and I hope you do. That it's like, "oh he's a guy and he can follow. Oh, well I can start taking some classes." "Oh, he's a guy and he's, uh, leading in heels. I can do that as a woman." Like, trying to break these norms-

[LIZ ASIDE] For a deeper dive into gender norms and tango, episodes 1, 2, 11, and 18 of this podcast would all be great places to start. Links in the show notes, of course.

SCOTT: -but I, I feel that I'm also lucky in the perspective that I have been dancing for, for a long time, so I'm not just this beginner making this crazy show. You know, I, I go in and I'm well dressed. You know, I, I- and I dance well, so it's- I think that I've created this, this external persona that is hopefully pleasing or at least interesting to look at. So it's this level of "I don't care, and if you don't like me then don't talk to me. Don't attempt to dance with me," which is, you know, everybody's prerogative. So it's- and I've been very lucky that I've not had any issues, really.

Um, as far as getting dances though, I thought it would be easier being in heels. You know, I thought more men would be like "oh, hey, he's in heels - he must know how to follow! Hey great, let's give him a try!" Ha, no. Haha, no. Um, no, it's still, you know, and I get a lot of men who, who ask me, you know, "how do you get more dances as, as a follower?" Guys, it's hard. But the, but the ones that I do get, it's, it's so fulfilling, because I've had a number of them where after the first song they'll- or at the end of the tanda, they'll say "thank you. You were the first guy that I've ever danced with, like, a full tanda at a milonga. Like, you're the first one ever and that was a lot of fun. Thank you." So for me, that's, like, big, big heart shapes all around my head, you know? It's like, yes, I succeeded in opening that guy's box a little bit, you know?

LIZ SCRIPT:
Here's to exploring, connecting, and opening some boxes here and there. Thank you, Scott, and thanks to Tango Bardo for their interpretation and recording of "Loca," originally composed by Manuel Jovés.