TRANSCRIPT ~ EPISODE 3

EPISODE 3: Why we should all be dancing tango, with Simona Ciampi

Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: "El Carillon de la Merced" by Enrique S. Discepolo, performed by Carlos Molina y Su Orquesta | Image Credit: Dos Orillas Practica de Tango Buenos Aires

LIZ SCRIPT:
Simona Ciampi wants the world to fall in love with tango.

SIMONA:
Once you know that something makes you really, really happy, why wouldn't you want everyone to do it?

LIZ SCRIPT:
She takes her craft very seriously, but when she's spreading the tango love, she aims to keep it light.

SIMONA:
I want people to fall in love. All the commitment and the hard work and the craft, they are gonna do it because they will have their inner motivation to do it. One of the advantages of tango, it's a never-ending practice. There is no level, there is no plateau, you, once you reach that plateau, you can say, "oh, I mastered the art of Argentine tango dancers. Now I can stop." No. So it's, like, continuously stimulating you - because it's also depending on another person and on the social connection, and it's so beautiful to be able to grow into something that- once you fall in love, that's up to you, baby.

[MUSIC]

LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Simona is not one to understate. When we connected about an interview for this podcast, she proposed the humble topic of how tango can, in her words, completely revolutionize someone's life. Obviously, I said yes. We've known each other through the Washington, D.C. tango community for over a decade and I can verify that Simona is 100 percent qualified to talk about tango's revolutionary powers. There's even a short film from 2016, which you can view through a link in the show notes, about how Simona met her husband, had her daughter, and found community and meaningful expression all through tango. Since then, Simona's commitment to tango has only grown.

With a natural inclination to put people at ease and years of professional experience as an online community manager, Simona knows how to connect with others and how to connect them to one another. I saw her social graces in action the last few times we were at tango events together, when she introduced me to such lovely dancers that I now refer to her only semi-jokingly as my tango fairy godmother. I asked Simona to tell me more about how she works her fairy godmother magic.

SIMONA:
I always feel that there is a component of strength from people coming together. I also remember at school, if there was anybody that was not, um, mingling, you can spot that kind of person that is like- feels like an outsider. And I would always go and make sure that that person felt at ease. Because, now that you make me think about it, I was an outsider. I have lived in a very, very small village until I was 11, and then I moved to a bigger town, and I felt that sense of unease.

If I had to pinpoint what exactly I do, I think it's, I care. I think I care to, to connect. I always say about myself, I am not an interesting person - I am an interested person. I'm interested in your story. I'm interested in what you have to say. I want to know about your life. And I think that is the way people normally are attracted to me, because you see somebody that really sees you. Now, this can become also a problem, because having the ability to make someone really feel special with your attention is great. But it has this downside. I feel there are so many people that need this, this cure, or this kind of integration and connection. It's kind of like you said, "you are my fairy godmother." At some point, I may have helped you. But at some other point, you have to go on your own.

And this is also the way I think I dance tango. I really crave for that special connection with somebody, but I am unable to dwell on it, because - you make me say these things I never thought before - but it's like a mission that you have, and a gift. So you, you have to keep spreading it. And maybe this is the reason why I had to move again. I don't know.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Simona is deeply committed to connecting with others. But she grounds herself in the present, and that means having the freedom to come and go. She's with you when she's with you. And when she moves on, she'll be fully present at her next destination. And speaking of destinations, Simona and her family have made two international moves since we last saw each other in D.C.

SIMONA:
There is a first move from the U.S. to Argentina, and then a second move from Argentina to Italy. And those two moves have two completely different stories for me. The first one is about being able to follow your dream and finally drop everything that is sensible. The difficulty is just in the decision and all the fears that you have when you make such a big change. I was very scared. I had, like, nightmares at night thinking that something would happen to Vittoria, my daughter, that we were crazy going to South America from North America, the dream of everybody, you know? And then, oh my God, we had such an incredible time. We were totally right. We were completely happy, doing what we like the most. We were very lucky with the school also that we selected for our daughter. So it was overall a very, very good move. But then, you know, the COVID happened. The isolation in Argentina was painfully long. And so, I think in August-

[LIZ ASIDE] as in August of 2020

SIMONA: -I talked to my sister and she had told me that she was moving from Rome - which is a big city and very chaotic, and very hard to live in - to Brindisi, which is this southern Italian coast city, uh, where life is much simpler. So we said, "Okay, I think this is a sign that we need to abandon the Argentinian dream." And that's the second move! [LAUGHTER]

It was very, very painful to say goodbye to Buenos Aires and to all the travels and the friends and the tango. But I think I'm happy about the decision. Like, we bought an apartment now. My daughter is also very happy in school. And I'm closer to my family. Anyway, all these things that make a difference. We will never know which kind of life would have been better for our kids. We can only know the life that they are going to have and hope that that's the best for them. And it's going to be perfect for them anyway.

So, we are happy here. And I remember- we are very close to the water. So we go out. We go for a walk. And in three minutes, we see the water, this blue water. And we see boats and sailboats and it was, like, the beginning of our move. And we are walking with Vittoria on the shore. And I said, "Vittoria, we are going to really be happy here." And she said, "No, mama. We are happy here." And that's how children, I think, live their life and have so much to teach us.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Children may be the true masters of living in the present. But from what I can tell, Simona doesn't exactly have trouble seizing a moment.

SIMONA:
I am a dancer. I dance all the time, I, I.... Now my art is exposed in an art show here in Brindisi and-

[LIZ ASIDE] Simona is also a painter.

SIMONA: -one of those days, there was a, a DJ putting electronic music and I really connected with my own self because I was dancing to that music and, I- to me, it was beautiful. I don't know how it looked from the outside, but I felt I was in the flow. And I was looking at all this art. And I felt, "Wow, this is the place where I want to be! If I die now, I'll be happy." And the other night, there was ethnic music playing in one square here in Brindisi and I start dancing and I know those dances, because those were the dances I was doing before meeting Tango, and I start dancing and I thought- oh, my God - it was like connecting with an old friend. And then this guy came to me. "You need to stop." And in my huge ego, Liz, I thought he was stopping me because people were getting distracted from the concert. [LAUGHTER] Because they were looking at me and not paying attention to the concert. That is my first thought going through my mind. So I asked, "Why? Why should I stop?" "Because it's illegal to dance." I said, "Really? In the street? By myself?" "Yes, it's illegal."

LIZ: Whaaatttt???? Whoa.

SIMONA: Yeah, come un'ordinanza that says you cannot dance. So I had to explain to my daughter why I was doing something illegal, why I thought that his complaint made no sense, why when we were walking home, I continued dancing home. She's like, "Mama, what are you doing? They'll put you into jail!" So I had the opportunity to explain to her, you know, not all the rules are right. For this, I would go to jail. I would be one of those like, uh, revolutionaries that says, "No - we have to dance."

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
International moves, one-woman public dance parties. And maybe most revolutionary of all, the essential, if counterintuitive, blend of commitment and freedom that Simona seems to bring to every aspect of her life, including her marriage. Far from seeing tango as a threat to their relationship, she and her husband Krys find a freedom in the dance that actually nurtures their commitment to each other.

SIMONA:
We're not built to be with only one person our entire life, or for a very long time. So dancing tango, I think, gives a man the opportunity to go around and spread his conquering, uuuuhhh, energy, and take as many women as he wants in his arms. And then he can stay with only one woman because that part of his instinct is fulfilled by tango.

Same thing we could say for a woman, like, I personally love flirting and have- receive compliments from a man, it's, for me, pleasing - I love it. I have no shame in admitting that. So in tango, I get plenty. I get men looking at me. I can look at them in return with no shame, with a look of desire, because I desire dancing with you and you desire dancing with me. Then there is all this, like, uh, ritual of the man approximating to you and take your hands and take you on this beautiful journey. So me, personally, I don't feel I need to do anything else with so many men. I can be perfectly happy with one man because all the little things that tango gives me are, um, satisfying my natural polygamistic nature.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Married or single, whether we have conquering energy, a love of flirting, or a need for more hugs or conversation, tango offers a range of social interactions on and off the dance floor. But for Simona, tango isn't just a social outlet. It's a social art form.

SIMONA:
The fact that my partner dances tango, it's very good because you can understand - but tango doesn't belong to the partner, in my opinion. Tango belongs to one person. So when there is this kind of exchange of energy - this very, very physical pleasure that I have in dancing with somebody else - that person can be a man, can be a woman, can be ugly, beautiful, uh, sweaty, blonde, brown- I don't care. It's a relationship with the dance, with the other human being, and with my own body. My body is able to feel that feeling, and it can only feel it in tango. So if a partner would tell me, "You cannot dance tango because I'm jealous," or "You shouldn't dance with other men, only with me," that would be very limiting to my personal freedom.

I don't believe that tango belongs to the couple. I mean, if you go to Argentina, it's very much like that. Uh, married people only dance with married people, or if they are starting in a relationship, they make sure that that is only for your partner in life, and they have boundaries, like, I get to a certain level of commitment in the dance only with the man of my life, only with the woman of my life. People split all the time in Argentina, because this is unsustainable. And when I was dancing the way I was dancing in Argentina, I knew that person dancing tango with me, and knowing that I was completely committed to the dance, the way the dance for me is, he would think, "Oh, she doesn't have a good relationship at home." And they would just starting, like, asking me about my husband, or if I really had a husband, or if I was faking wearing the ring, or maybe flirting in a way that is sometimes more direct than others. And this is their problem.

I think culturally, tango is more open towards no boundaries in Europe than it is in Argentina. But we are talking about their way of living, something that is proper to their way. But I truly believe that if you are open-minded in your relationship, if you trust the other person, that what you have with that person is not just tango - you share this common passion, but it's like, I paint also. So it's like my husband would tell me, "you can only paint me when you paint. You cannot paint other subjects." That, it's comparable to if my husband told me, "You can only dance with me," or "You can only dance a certain way of transport with me." And I'm like, what? This is my art, so I must feel free to do it the way I believe it's right. Otherwise, there is no point of even dancing.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Since the start of my tango journey, I've had doubts about tango's sexy public image. For me personally, it always felt limiting.
When I inevitably nerd out about this with other tango dancers, I find myself saying things like, but what about playfulness?
What about melancholy? What about just connecting with someone you have no interest in sleeping with? I asked Simona if she thinks tango is better when dancers feel some level of attraction beyond the dance floor.

SIMONA:
I don't think there is anything beyond. I just think that whatever happens, it's like, when somebody is alone doing something really pleasurable, and then at that moment, when you're doing this thing really pleasurable, you are accompanied by another soul, and by the music, and by a particular movement. So there are so many things that have to come to place. You have to be comfortable in the place that you are, and there's gonna be the right light, and there's gonna be the right music, and the right movement. Not necessarily that person has to be the right person for you to go to bed with, but definitely that sensation is close to something very intimate that you may not expect to happen to you in a social situation. Like, you are in front of other people. And I remember the first time it happened to me, I felt kind of a sense of shame, also because I was in a committed relationship. I felt like, whoa, what is this feeling I have that I want to pursue and have again? And sometimes, once it happened in one song with one person, then I carry with me, and it follows me and it happens with another person, even if that person maybe is not as good of a dancer. It's like a domino effect that I may be causing now in the other person. It's like a bliss. I always say, like, the tango gods were with me last night when I feel it.

And so, when I felt that shame, I also felt the need to share it with my partner, telling, you know, I danced with this person, and I felt a very strong sensation, and I think I was aroused sexually. It doesn't mean that I want to go to bed with that person, but I was- like, my body was interested in a way very similar to what is involved in a sexual relationship. And Krys told me, "No worries, honey, go for it - because it happens to me, too." I knew what he meant. It happens, and it's something between you, the other person, and the music - and, well, even if I sometimes still feel shame, because maybe you make those faces that, you know, somebody from outside can see and spot the pleasure on your face, and it's like, "Oh my God, I don't want people to see me, how much fun am I having in this moment?" But then, you know, you overcome it, and I tell myself, this is mine. It's right, because I accept it, and this is why I dance. To be in bliss. [LAUGHS]

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
That simple and that subtle. Tango isn't about sex - it's about tango. As we link our present - be it filled with joy, arousal, playfulness, melancholy, or any other blend of emotions - with the present of another person, we may share an experience as intimate and powerful as sex. The secret, at least as I interpret Simona's insight, is to honor the transience, and ground that power and intimacy in the ever-shifting moment.

In this ever-shifting moment of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, Simona's commitment to the present has taken the form
of virtual tango technique training and a daily practice of painting.

SIMONA:
The craft takes time, and you ask me, like, how much time I spend on my craft in tango. Really, I start really, really practicing tango during this past year, dedicating, like, consistent hours to a solo technique practice, a thing I wasn't doing before because I was going to dance - maybe I was going to classes, and I was going to milongas, but I didn't have a practice. You say, you really worked hard on your tango - No! [LAUGHS] No, I worked hard during this coronavirus because I don't want to forget. And magically, I think my tango improved! I think I'm a much better dancer now during not dancing than when I was dancing every day. So practice is really important in every art craft and I feel like, basically, compared to my tango, as a painter, I'm a beginner because I nearly did not spend as much training hours on the art, uh, visual art. But I think art will always be part of my life, no matter what is the outside situation. Because I think I crave for saying something or expressing myself.

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
If you have something to say, and I think we all do, my tango fairy godmother has graciously offered us these five irresistible reasons why we should all be dancing tango. Number 1-

SIMONA:
I think tango is the secret of a long-lasting, monogamistic relationship.

LIZ: Love it

SIMONA: Not many people know that. I always think about this woman, imaginary woman. She goes to work. She doesn't dance tango. And she loves her husband. They are in a very happy, content relationship. One day, though, a new guy comes to work and he's, he's very handsome. She goes for coffee to the coffee machine and she drops something and he collects it for her. Then another day, they kind of bump into each other in the corridor. And another day, she meets him in the copy machine booth and they chit-chat and the more she feels this awesome body close to her, the more she feels tickled and she's emotional. And she falls for this guy and eventually she ends up having an affair. Not because she doesn't love her husband - because that need to connect and be seen and build that kind of play and game with a different human being, you cannot shut it off.

Now, same woman, same office, same circumstance, but she's a tango dancer. She's used to touch, be touched, and be close to many men and strangers. So when this stranger touches her, she doesn't feel it as much as this other woman that doesn't dance tango. Like, our boundaries, physical boundaries, are much more open to the other, so we don't- a woman that dances tango cannot fall as easily for another guy. Do you agree?

LIZ: I love it. Yes, I love that. I love that idea.

SIMONA: -like all that physical thing, you already do it with another guy. And also, your husband cannot be as jealous because he has seen you in the arm of another man blissfully dancing away. How can he be jealous because you just shared a cup of coffee in a small room? Doesn't add up. So, that's part of the secret.

[LIZ ASIDE] Number two.

I also say that it's like traveling without travel, or traveling within travel. So you can be in your own town and receive dancers from all over the world. You can travel and go dance and you will have instantly spoke the language of those people. It's a dance that is danced all over the world and there is no better way to connect and make friends because the level of proximity you share in tango is very high. You can smell the other person. You can have their sweat on your face. This is very close. So sometimes you get to know that person more than the mother knows that person. You know, if they showered, what they eat, if they eat garlic or, you know, Asian food, you would know. So I think that's the best way to make instant friends.

[LIZ ASIDE] Number three.

SIMONA: Probably the thing I love the most. Lately, with my technique when I dance with a very good dancer, I realize that- everyone says that a follower is such a like- oh, you can relax, you can close your eyes and think about nothing. What happens to me is there is an incredible - almost to the level of hypnosis - amount of presence. Presence. You have to be in that moment. You're like a very high-performer tennis player or, you know, you're driving a fast racing car. The only thing that matters in that moment is your body, the connection with the other body, and the connection with the floor. One distraction that has nothing to do with these three things - and the music, of course - you, you're done. You can fall. And so when you are able to be really in the present, I think that's the essence of life. Life is not thinking about the past, like, "Oh, what a beautiful dance I had," or think about the future - "Ah, I really wish I could dance with that person next." No, it's here and now, what I'm doing in this moment. And there is like a vortex that opens around and you are it. That "it" is the essence of life.

LIZ: That's a good reason. That's a really good reason to dance tango. [LAUGHS]

[LIZ ASIDE] Number four.

Maybe I'll be 80 when I really am happy about my paintings. Maybe you'll be 80, 85, the listener that wants to start dancing tango. It would be maybe 60, 65. You can still start. There is no age for connecting with the, the performing and the beautiful thing that tango is.

[LIZ ASIDE] And number five.

There's one other advantage. You have art in your life every day, through the music and through the dance. It's not that inaccessible thing. Like, it's not ballet dancing. You have to go to training and then you have to have a show, you have to have an audience. No. Tango, you have it in your life. In every city there is a milonga. You can go dance. You can be beautiful. You can make something beautiful yourself with another person. How amazing.

LIZ SCRIPT:
How amazing, indeed.

Thanks to Simona for making it her mission to spread tango's magic - on three continents and counting. The song featured in this episode is a recording of Enrique Discepolo's "El Carillon de la Merced," performed by Carlos Molina y Su Orquesta and made available thanks to the Internet Archive.

[MUSIC]