TRANSCRIPT ~ EPISODE 7

EPISODE 7: Reflecting the collective dream, with Jaime Montemayor

Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: "Patético" by Jorge Caldera, performed by Solo Tango Orquesta | Image Credit: Photo by Yulia Kriskovets, processing by Jaime Montemayor

JAIME:
The room exudes beauty, right? It's, like, overwhelmingly beautiful. I just couldn't take it. They were just sort of triggering every desire in me to say, "listen, I-this is- I need to do something about this." And so I started to take pictures and that drove my need to actually know what I'm doing. Then I had to learn the technical knowledge of photography. Um-

LIZ: So tango inspired your photography habit.

JAIME: Yeah, absolutely. Completely. And it's so difficult. Taking tango pictures [as] photos is so difficult that it was just like,
it was a great experimental space for me. People often tell me, "I'm so grateful that you're remembering these moments." And there was a time where I took it so seriously that I thought maybe I'm an archivist for this community in this time, that this is how we live this life. So I think this is part of the thing that is sort of different from say, taking landscape photography. Here, everyone in a room is participating.

LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
I remember when Jaime Montemayor started taking pictures of social tango in Washington, D.C. In fact, I still have the first email he sent me in August of 2009, sharing photos of me dancing before it became standard practice to post and tag on Facebook. I quickly became one of those grateful people who relished the chance to relive their tango experiences through Jaime's lens. A few years later, I was already more used to seeing Jaime behind his camera than on the dance floor - though we met there too, sometimes.

JAIME:
I know several people in our community who do not want to have their photos taken, and you never see them, right? And there have been also times when visitors enter our community, they see that I have a camera, they come up to me and say "don't take any pictures of me" I say okay, no problem. The opposite is also happening, where everyone is there and they would like to remember this. And very, very frequently, friends would come to me at the milongas and say, you know, "I go home and I can't even go to sleep before I see if you posted any photos." Or, you know, "the first thing I wake up in the morning the day after is to look to see if you posted photos of last night." They tell me this all the time. And it was, it was fuel for me. It really, it, it enriched my life to know that I was bringing some joy, you know? So that helped me to continue. Because tango is very, because they're very spontaneous, right? You're just sort of in the moment. In the early years, I was so focused on wanting to take a picture and it was enough to have a picture in the foreground even though the background was distracting. But I was just so happy I got the foreground that I just sort of said, okay, I compromised. But more and more, what I want is as much as you can, when you see the picture, if you look at every part of the picture, it's supposed to be there.

You know, I'm an engineer, right? And so when I start to think about, you know, my role as an artist in life, I came to understand that what is genuine is the way you are, the way you express it. And I know that the way I capture the world
through my camera is different. I don't care about focus all the time. I don't care about this. I care about, there are some things I really care about and they're in the images.

LIZ: I'm sure I've told you this before. If I had to choose a word to describe your photos, I wouldn't have to think about it - it would be dreamy. Is that how you see your photos, or is it completely different?

JAIME: Yeah, so I appreciate that you think of it that way. I don't- that's not what I'm thinking about. I think what I can say is this. Sometimes in your dreams, you see with your mind's eyes, the image that's completely representative of like these moments that are extremely meaningful or powerful. You know it's not quite real, but it is extremely meaningful because it's almost like you're allowed to do it because you're the only one in that dream, like, the only person in the world who knows what's going on. And so maybe that's what my brain is trying to do, which is, what is it I'm seeing that is, that if I were to see this in my dream, I would say, "yeah, that's exactly, that's right. That's the right picture."

I have a microstock library of pictures that are actually in focus, that are color balanced and everything like that. And I did that because- do you know how often, how many times people tell me your photos are not in focus?

LIZ: No, really?

JAIME: Oh my God, the number of times. And people privately say to me, you know, "you should not be doing photography like this. This is not at all professional." And I would say, "thank you for giving me your advice." But the thing is what I appreciated was the person was asserting that, "listen, as an artist, there are some things that are immutable." And okay, that's his artist ideal. It's not mine. So rather than conforming, I'll say, "okay, let me start a microstock library where it has the conventional requirements of being focused, that the color's correct and so on." It's sort of my little inside joke to say, "yeah, I know. I know it's not in focus. It's not an accident."

LIZ: Like, I know the rules.

JAIME: Yeah, I know the rules. And so when you see something that's not in focus, it's because A, I know it's not in focus, and B, in that moment, it was more important for me to remember that picture than to miss it because, "oh, even if I took it, it would not be in focus." I would have missed that moment. I'd rather that there is- this is where when you say it's dreamlike, is I'd rather that I had dreamt it than having not been allowed to dream it.

LIZ: Because you didn't have all the details.

JAIME: Right, because I didn't have the details. I mean, what tragedy! There was a time where I was really focused on capturing emotion, but then very soon I realized that it was almost, it was too voyeuristic. Like, these people know me.
They know I'm in the room. They've all implicitly trusted me with them being there and I'm there with a camera. And there have been many, many photos that I took that were emotionally, like, overwhelming. I don't post them. I did not post them. It's just because I was like, this moment was- it's way too intimate. There's no way- even though if I were to share that, it would- I don't even know what to say. It's just, it's almost like there's a line, right? When the people in the room are, if they're okay with me there and they're there dancing in their private- I mean, tango's very private, right? And they're being overtaken by something, and I, you know, I'm tracking everyone in the room, right? I know when someone is, like, getting pretty emotional. And so-

LIZ: So there's like a responsibility there.

JAIME: I feel that way. And so it wasn't too long into my taking pictures of tango dancers that I, I deliberately, um, try to be much more respectful about capturing emotions. I mean, you still see them, okay. But they're almost like the PG version. Like, "okay, this is okay."

LIZ: [LAUGHS] So you mean you have pictures that I probably haven't seen that you feel are like spy pictures where you, like, caught something that you felt was between a person and a partner and it shouldn't have been captured on film.

JAIME: Well, no, no, actually that's not- so you can easily interpret it as, "oh, it's something that is overly sensual or almost sexual" - no, nothing like that. I mean very much the vulnerability. You know, we all wear masks, right? In tango, in this space,
there's- I think there's an agreement where it's okay to just check your mask at the door, okay? And so I think what I'm saying is not about the sensual or sexual at all. It is about the vulnerability that you begin to exude. Maybe that's what- part of what we're looking for is just being able to let go of that, just being able to be completely ourselves. And when you take a picture that is completely, like, completely honest about a person, that's very private.

LIZ: And now that we're actually literally wearing masks.

JAIME: So I took a few photos last night of a friend and so what's amazing is the eyes are beautiful, right? And when you can't see anything and you just see the eyes, I mean, they're just mesmerizing. So, that's gonna change just because, um, the mask is a reminder of so many awful things. So I'm just focusing on the eyes, but really all the pictures are, um, depressing.

LIZ: Fair enough. [LAUGHING] But they're still beautiful. I mean, lots of depressing things are beautiful, I guess.

JAIME: Well, I think- so, a part of me deliberately wanted to save some piece from, you know, 2021-22, as a reminder that we all lived through that, right? So they're depressing, but necessary.

[MUSIC]

LIZ SCRIPT:
As Jaime has honed his eye for the beauty of tango, he's also been working through his own personal challenges as a dancer and a human.

JAIME:
It was a difficult time in my life and I accidentally found social dance to be extremely curative. Before that, I had to take medicine just to be okay. And what I found was that, um, I'd go out one night dancing and it had better effect on my mental health than any of the meds I was taking. I was like, "wow, this is amazing." I was trying a variety of classes. I tried swing, I tried different things and, at the same time, I was also transitioning out of my active practice of judo because I had done that for 20 years and my body was just getting so frail, you know, getting knocked around. And that relationship, this physical relationship with someone else - even though in that case it's sort of adversarial - I missed having that sort of contact. And so, whereas the other social dances don't necessarily give me that- they cure me of, you know, my depression and so on, but- so what tango gave me was that close physical contact and, uh, oftentimes quite surprisingly, also an emotional contact, right? And it's very brief, it's very safe. And I found that I was able to get a tremendous amount of, sort of, satisfaction and joy from tango as I was when I was practicing judo, so...

The other dances, they're fun and joyous and so on, but you're almost like, you're, you're very much in your space and once in a while you connect with the other person - at the level I was at. I'm sure that there's some level where, you know, the two people are actually creating things or sort of being in the same place. That, you know, that wasn't me at the time. But you get that almost right away in tango.

Tango is amazing because it's sort of universal. You can be from everywhere. And by the way, it was one of those few places where it's completely colorblind. It doesn't matter if you're Asian or yellow or brown or black - whatever it is. In tango, the question is, are you a good dancer? Not everything else that society has sort of overlaid, right? It's extraordinarily freeing.

LIZ: I take it that you've been in contexts where you haven't felt that, that way.

JAIME: Um, practically everywhere else in my life, yeah. I mean, when I was in New York, when I'd walk into a building, they would insist on looking into my back, thinking that I was there to drop off menus, right?

LIZ: And you're from the Philippines, right, originally?

JAIME: I'm half Filipino, half Taiwanese.

LIZ: Okay.

JAIME: So- but it doesn't matter to them, right?

LIZ: Right, right. [LAUGHTER]

JAIME: So, and so it was a relief where once you choose, despite your background, to pick tango and you step into the door, everyone's equal.

In the beginning, when I was taking classes, I took Sharna and Isaac's 101 class like three or four times back to back, just because if you didn't have mastery of 101, you don't really have anywhere else to go. You could pretend you're okay, but you're basically just covering up. And I was surrounded by people who were eager to go into 102, 103, 104. When are they gonna get into 201? How do they pass out of one series, go to two? Can they jump into three 'cause they had two years of this experience? And it was this needing to be pegged with a level of mastery. And that was very confounding to me because for me, you know, I have a different background. When you're fighting someone, the person either gets a whomped or not. It's like- [LAUGHTER]

LIZ: You get immediate feedback.

JAIME: Yeah. And so like, it's like, you- effectively in martial arts, you learn that 101 is a lifetime, you know? And you choose a different 101 because everyone has a different body. But sometimes in the room, there were more people who were eager to climb that scale and fewer people who were just- who were there to give everything they have, who they are in that moment. And it was difficult for me because, um, it's almost like a competition, and that was not enjoyable.

The pain from judo is immediate, right? You get smashed, it hurts right away. Tango is really sneaky, right? You're sore, your technique's not quite right. So you're sort of overusing something improperly. It's not like, "oh, you can't do it because, you know, you broke a wrist or broke a rib." It's like, it's never you cannot do it. It's just uncomfortable. "Oh, but it feels so good. The music's so amazing." You know, like, it's wonderful to be there. Like, you love dancing with these people. They smell so good. And then in those equations, like, being sore or painful always would lose - until there's a point where it becomes significant, right? And you have to take a break.

Maybe a couple of years before COVID, I had already begun to retreat from tango. So COVID was a welcome relief 'cause, you know, it was just not available. And then there were brief, you know, several months long separations. This last one was the one that was the longest. See, the problem with tango is that, you know, there's no such thing as being too old, right? Yeah, in judo it's like, "I'm too old." And everybody would say, "yeah, sure, I understand." And then if you say, well, you don't dance tango anymore, it's invariability because of something that is going negative. And I think I don't want to leave tango on bad terms.

LIZ: Hm. Why do you think that is?

JAIME: Well, because tango is kind of like a mirror, right? And so you can't- you don't leave yourself. [LAUGHTER] You just have to work through yourself and accept yourself.

So when I am sitting and I'm watching other dancers, I see how they're enjoying each other. It's just that they don't know, they don't necessarily know that. It's just, I mean, I'm hopeful that the person's enjoying being with me, but I can't see my partner because I'm in an embrace, right? I don't really know because I'm wondering whether they're just being kind to me and not telling me how awful it is. And that comes from, you know, just, I'm still working on being able to see- look at myself in the mirror, right, that I am enough, I'm okay. I'm much better with that now, but in terms of the lifetime that I've been in this, you know, 90% of that time was in this self-doubt of whether or not, you know, this is good enough that I'm bringing to the relationship. Um, so now what I've been doing recently is I explicitly tell my partner how much pleasure I had, and just how treasured that moment that I had was with them. Because I realized that we don't tell people these things. Like, when was the last time you tell someone, "my God, you're amazing?" And you know, the funny thing is they all look shocked. And so that told me that we don't say that enough.

LIZ: So maybe our bodies can't say everything. [LAUGHS]

JAIME: Huh? Yeah, right. Yes, I think that even if our body were sort of expressing this, it's almost like the other person- it is almost like, "oh, you didn't really, like," almost you can't believe it. 

LIZ: Like, we doubt our interpretation, right?

JAIME: Right.

LIZ SCRIPT:
As dreams reflect our reality through the lens of our own unique perspective, tango reflects our humanity, with the most exquisite variation in the details. So whether we're using photography, dance, or words to commune with others, it's good to remember that together, we compose a shared panorama that each of us will perceive a little differently.

JAIME:
Over the past couple of months, I'm dancing maybe once a week. Before that, um, so over the year end, there was the tango marathon, and I was there with my family, and it was incredible. It was, um, it was really affirming. And I had missed so much of tango, and there was so much of tango that kept me away, okay? But there was so much that was also pulling me. And I really went to the marathon just to take a break from work. And I was like, "if I'm there, I can't work, so it's good." And, uh, Yulia played this music that just broke my heart. I was like, oh my God. And she took no prisoners. And I talked to her afterwards. I said, "my God, Yulia, what were you doing?" She said, you know, "I haven't DJed in two years. I just missed it so I played everything I wanted." She took no prisoners, like every song. It's like, "I don't care if you're tired. I don't care if you're emotionally charged. Here's another one." It was the best. It was the best in a very, very long time, where she just says, "you're going on this ride with me - hang on," right? And it was the best four hours in so long. And it brought me back.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Thank you, Jaime, for sharing the panorama through your singular lens.

And thanks to Solo Tango Orquesta, whose interpretation of Patético by Jorge Caldara, which just so happens to be Jaime's favorite tango for 11 years and counting, is featured in this episode.

[MUSIC]