TRANSCRIPT ~ EPISODE 9

EPISODE 9: Keeping the fire alive, with Felipe Martinez

Producer/Host: Liz Sabatiuk | Music: “Trago Amargo” by Julio Navarrine and Rafael Iriarte, performed by Juan D'Arienzo y Su Orquesta Típica with Alberto Echagüe | Image Credit: Kappu Chino

[MUSIC]

FELIPE:
Somebody said something like, "you don't have to worship the ashes, but you have to keep the fire alive."

LIZ ID INTRO:
I'm Liz Sabatiuk and this is Humans of Tango, where we explore what tango has to teach through the experiences of those who dance it.

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

LIZ SCRIPT:
Okay, forgive the name-bomb here, but according to Frederick Whitley's Western Ways, it was composer Gustav Mahler paraphrasing Sir Thomas More who said, "Tradition is the handing down of the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes." I had to think about it for a minute, but now I can't imagine a more apt metaphor for the way Felipe Martinez approaches tango. He honors the history that started the fire and the process of adaptation and renewal that keeps it burning. Case in point, Felipe's pragmatic take on the mainstream tango tradition of gendered roles, with men leading and women following. Felipe doesn't subscribe to this particular tango tradition. He typically leads, but also enjoys following. And he's more of a tango essentialist than a gender essentialist.

FELIPE: 
Maybe the words that we use are wrong already, right? But a lot of people see this discussion about trying to bring importance to one role versus the other. And no, it's like, it's the couple, you know what I'm saying? It's a couple that is dancing together. And when you are tuning with the other person, you are listening all the time, even if you are leading. Because if you don't listen to the other person, your lead won't be effective, won't do anything. You won't be able to lead if you are not in tune with the other person. So the leader is a follower. And at the same time, the follower, you know, also is in the dancing together with the leader, so is leading too, because without the energy of the follower, without that response, without that personality and that energy, you know, the leader can't do anything either. It's like, this is something that you create together. It's a co-creation when you're dancing, right? At the end of the day, if one person dances alone, it doesn't matter the gender, the role or anything. It's dancing alone. It's not dancing together. So that's irrelevant, I think.

LIZ: So you don't feel like there's any, like, essential, uh, association between being a man and being the leader or being a woman and being the follower?

FELIPE: No, I mean, those are just, you know, culturally-assignated roles because of tradition. It's like the discussions about who should be a pilot, who should be a doctor. It's like those things change with society and change with the times. Tango is a reflection of our societies, it's still a living cultural expression. So it reflects the society and the times we live in. You know, our philosophy and our values are not the same as 50 years ago, and they won't be in 50 years from now. So things are going to keep changing. And some people are going to like it and some people are not going to like it. I think also what is important is respect, you know, to understand that we need to respect each other. And that goes both ways. 

[MUSIC]

My family has been always very musical and there's been always a lot of art. We grew up with this sense of how to enrich your life through culture. I got into actually dancing other dances before tango. I was doing a little bit of salsa and a little bit of ballroom before I got into tango. My girlfriend at the time was a ballet dancer and ballet teacher. And we kind of, like, you always have this sort of like romanticized idea, exotic view of tango. So we were like, "oh, why don't we try tango?" And then when we started tango, it's like we got so hooked. And kind of like all the other dances we dropped. Sonia was her name. Actually, you know, I have to thank her for dancing right now because she's the one who told me one day that I was born to dance. So, you know, thanks to her eye and that little seed that she planted, I believed that I was, I was a dancer. And it's something that I've been thinking a lot is like, "how did I end up doing this?" But then I always remember those words, you know? 

I was already working as a school teacher when I got into tango. You know, when you when you study education in Spain, you have like a general degree as a teacher and you specialize into something. So I have a specialty in physical education also. And I was working in Madrid in a bilingual school, and then a friend of mine heard about this exchange program where, you know, in this state they need a lot of teachers. They need a lot of bilingual teachers. So they they bring teachers from Spain and other Spanish-speaking countries. So my friend wanted to apply for the program and in order to support her, another, another guy and me said, "okay, let's do it all together and it will be fun." And then in the end, I was the only one who ended up coming. 

I got a position to teach here in California and I took it as an adventure. Like, okay, I'll go one year, I'll try it out. And it's just a great experience living in a different country and then come back to Spain again. But, you know, one year turns two, two years turns three. And then when you realize it's 22 years! [LAUGHS] Life goes very fast sometimes. 

My main concern when I was moving, 'cause this was in 2000, so I was already three years into, you know, into dancing tango. One of my main concerns is, like, is there going to be any tango there? And when I go to San Francisco, I was very happy to see that, you know, they have a big community, was very strong. There was lots of milongas and they ended up earlier, which meant that I could go to work no problem next day, because in Spain back then, the milongas ended up at 4 a.m. and then going to work next day was really rough, especially if you have to deal with, you know, 27 kids jumping on your heads.

For many years, I kept my full-time job as a school teacher and I was doing tango on the side because tango really, for me, started as a hobby. And then when I first started teaching tango, I took it as a way to subsidize my hobby. So it was like, oh, if I can make a little money with these privates or these classes, then that pays for my festivals, my trips to Buenos Aires, my classes I'm taking with all these maestros, et cetera, et cetera. So it was just like a side job. But it grew so much, it grew so much that at some point, I have basically two jobs. I had a full-time job teaching in school and I was teaching tango in the evenings and weekends and I started traveling and all that stuff. You know, there was a time where I wasn't happy with the school district I was working for. And at the same time, I had to renew my visa and tango was already very big in my life. So it was like, you know, it came to a point where the transition was almost, like, inevitable. Once I decided to go full-time tango, it grew exponentially so fast that I never had to go back to anything else. I mean, it just kept moving forward.

When you get an education on how to teach, you learn a lot of different things and all of it is very useful. So all those things that I had or I used when I was teaching in school, you transfer when you're teaching in a different setting. You know, managing a group, being able to be in front of them and deal with those dynamics, being able to accommodate to the different circumstances, to the individuality of each student - not everybody learns the same way. So really having your senses awake for those clues, you know, what do you need in every moment.

LIZ SCRIPT:
Felipe's dedication to tango expresses itself in many ways. In addition to teaching the dance, he also DJs, organizes, performs, and works with his partner in tango and life, Ayano Yoneda - who you can hear from in episode 14 of this podcast - to share English translations of classic tango songs through their Tango Poetry Project.

FELIPE:
The thing about tango, and I think one of the appeals, is that it relates to universal human qualities. I think that's why it doesn't matter where you're from, what's your culture or anything. At some point you can relate to it. You know, when you get to a certain age and then you look back and it's, like, hopes who didn't become a reality, things that you had and you lost, you know what I'm saying? That is so human. That's who we are. So those kind of things we all relate to. And if you understand the lyrics, sometimes you hear things all the time in tangos that it's like, "yeah, that's my life. That's my story. That's everybody's story." You know what I mean?

Now, having said that, you don't have to know the lyrics to connect with tango. And it's the same thing with other genres, other musical genres. A lot of people don't understand flamenco. I don't even understand the flamenco lyrics sometimes because it's very hard to understand what they say unless you read the text. But it moves you. You know, the music has this magic, this energy that goes inside your soul immediately and touches you. You know, the harmonies awake certain emotions. So lyrics are important, but you don't have to understand the lyrics necessarily to connect with something, right?

It's like looking at a painting. You don't need to understand composition and color technique and all that. You look at a painting and sometimes it feels- you know, you like it or you don't like it. It touches you or it doesn't touch you. It's not mental. You know what I'm saying? So with the music, it's the same thing. Sometimes you don't have to know the music. You feel it or you don't feel it. You like it or you don't like it. It makes you stand up and dance or it doesn't. It doesn't have to be so cerebral, the experience, right? The artistic experience, in most cases, is not cerebral at all. It's actually very visceral, very intuitive. And it's a great job what we did with the lyrics because, yeah, it adds another layer if you are studying the genre, but doesn't mean that it's necessary, right? And, yeah, when you study it, you see what the themes are, what the topics are. And they are so universal. And that confirms this idea that art is for everybody.

[MUSIC FADING IN - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Arrímese al fogón, viejita, aquí a mi lado
y ensille un cimarrón para que dure largo;
atráquele esa astilla, que el fuego se ha apagado,
revuelva aquellas brasas y cebe bien amargo;

Alcance esa guitarra de cuerdas empolvadas,
que tantas veces ella besó su diapasón,
y arránquele esa cinta, donde la desalmada
bordó, con sus engaños, mi gaucho corazón.
[MUSIC FADES]

LIZ SCRIPT:
That idea that art is for everybody also applies beautifully to social dancing. And it seems to be a guiding principle in how Felipe approaches his work as a DJ. 

FELIPE:
I love to go to watch musicians and to listen to live music, but I have a hard time connecting with most of them when I have to dance. My feeling, without having a discussion with musicians much, but my feeling is that musicians want something and the average social dancer needs something different. I'm a traditional DJ, okay? So I'm going to speak from the traditional perspective. I'm a- I play traditional tango music for a traditional kind of milonga. And when you play for a traditional milonga, the body of music, the amount of songs that you use, they are not that many. It's not rocket science. You know what I mean? It's like, there's only a certain amount of songs that have been proven through history that work. You know what I mean? It's like, they're classics for a reason. 

When you think about dance music, like, today's dance music - cumbia, reggaeton, electronic dance music - it's not complex music, okay? It's not about the complexity, but it has something that makes the masses move. So the music needs to connect at that intuitive level. A lot of the DJs play stuff and it's like, "oh, but this is very danceable." I don't care. I can dance to the national anthem. It's not about whether it's danceable or not. It needs to make you dance. That is different than being danceable. Some- certain music, you hear the music and you start tapping on the floor. You know, you play the radio and the music gets into your body and suddenly you are dancing in the kitchen while making your coffee. You know what I'm saying? That kind of thing happens naturally. It's not an intellectual experience. 

And also, back to the idea of the average social dancer, familiarity is something important, because you are dancing maybe with somebody you don't know at all in a space that you don't know - let's talk about a festival for example, right? You are dancing with somebody new from a different city. You don't know the person. You don't know the space, because it's in a festival that you've never been to. In order to connect, you need something, some of the elements in the experience to anchor you. And in most cases, it's the DJ, it's the music. The DJ can experiment when you are playing for people that you know and they are familiar with each other and maybe they are willing to, you know, push forward. Then it's like, okay, then you can be part of that game. But in many cases, people need something also to be centered, to be- to feel that they have a reference point. If they don't know the space, if they don't know the partner, if they don't know the music, they could be completely lost. And again, I'm not talking about a professional who has all the skills in the world. I'm talking the regular person who wants to enjoy a tango evening. 

LIZ SCRIPT:
If tango is a fire, there's no question that it started on the shores of the Rio de la Plata in Argentina and Uruguay. The period in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s when those first flames grew strongest is known as the Golden Age of tango. Most of the music traditional DJs like Felipe play is from this period, as are many of the lyrics translated for the Tango Poetry Project. Obviously Felipe has a lot of appreciation for this period, but it doesn't come at the expense of the present or the future.

FELIPE:
The thing about the Golden Age is that, um, it's like any other historical moments - you know, it's not going to repeat again, because it's a set of circumstances that come together at a certain moment, right? And that's very unique. But the interesting thing that is happening now is that we actually have a second Golden Age right now. You know, tango has become really like a massive thing now. It's danced all over the world. And one interesting thing about today is that it's the first time in history, as far as I know, that a new generation of kids are being born growing in tango outside of Argentina. That has never happened. You know what I'm saying? It's like, now- in 15 years, there's going to be kids in Netherlands or Korea that, they grew up with tango because their parents are in tango and they've been listening to tango and they might have been dancing tango, and nobody can tell them because you are not Argentinian you didn't grow up with that. You know what I'm saying? Because I have a lot of tango teacher friends, a lot of tango teacher friends in Switzerland, in the States, I mean, all over the place that have kids. And they've been dancing even when they were pregnant, you know what I mean? So those kids, they have tango in their system and as they grew up, they grew up with tango.

So you know, tango nowadays - and this could be actually very controversial - but tango, in a way tango is being extracted from the Argentinian culture, you know, from the Argentinian-Uruguayan-Rio-de-la-Plata culture, because obviously those kids grew up with tango, but didn't grow up in Argentina. You know, they have other background associated with tango that is not going to be the traditional Argentinian culture. So I think that's actually, to me, like if you think about it from an anthropological point of view or a sociological point of view, it's actually really interesting. Somebody should start collecting data nowadays to have a study, you know, a longitudinal study for 20 years to see what happens with tango in that regards. Because I think the explosion of tango worldwide, the boom of tango that we've had since the '80s until today, which, you know, I think - not only me, it's not my own, my original idea - I've heard that from other people. There is like a second Golden Age. We don't know when this is going to end, you know, like the first Golden Age ended in '55, roughly, because there was a coup in Buenos Aires, right? But now we don't see an end to this boom. This boom has been going on for 40 years. It's longer than the original Golden Age! And there's so much stuff happening with tango today. So that is kind of interesting. It's also a very unique moment, historically speaking.

You know, back to the idea of the tango being a world phenomenon, I think still Buenos Aires is in a different league. Just- I'm not talking about the level of dancing or anything like that, but just the intensity in which you can live tango there. And it's not... I mean, people try to compare it, like, "oh, why are you going to go to Buenos Aires when you have so many festivals here or so many encuentros or whatever, marathons?" It's just a different thing. So you have festivals, you have encuentros, you have marathons, and then you have Buenos Aires. I think if you are into tango, Buenos Aires is like, it's still the Mecca, right? It's still something that is a pilgrimage that you have to do at least once for sure, if not regularly.

I mean, some people don't like Buenos Aires, and I understand. I understand why also, right? It's like, it operates in a different time universe. Like, if you go anywhere else, you go for a weekend, you can have a great experience. You know what I'm saying? You go to a- one of the good festivals or good marathons, and you can have a great time in three, four days, right? It's like, "wow, it was amazing." If you go to Buenos Aires for three, four days, very likely, you won't even scratch the surface. You need at least three, four weeks.

LIZ: I feel like even that's not enough.

FELIPE: And even that is not enough. But- and then on top of that, then we have the issue of, like, discerning the scene, because it's so complex. Again, there's so many kinds of milongas, there's so many circuits within the scene. You want to go to the new milongas, do you want to go to the traditional milongas? Do you want to go to the more commercial ones, to the more local ones? It's, like, such a big, big world, right? So, a lot of people I think have a really bad time in Buenos Aires because they are not able to, you know, to decipher that. You know, if a single person goes to the wrong milonga in Buenos Aires, they won't have a good time. If a couple goes to the wrong milonga in Buenos Aires, they won't have a good time. So it's like, you need to know all these things. At the same time, because it requires more time, it's like something that starts soaking into your system slowly in a much deeper way. 

[MUSIC FADING IN - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
¿Usted lo recuerda, madrecita santa,
cómo la quería, cómo yo la amé?
¡Que puse mi vida, mi daga y mi manta!...
Y, sin embargo, madre, la ingrata se fue...

Apague esa leña, que mi vista daña...
Los ojos me lloran... Yo no sé por qué…
Pues quiero olvidarla, ahogándome en caña,
y quiero estar cerca, cerquita de usted…
[MUSIC FADES]

FELIPE:
I would like to see people more relating with tango, uh, in a deeper way than just it's an entertainment and an activity, because that's where you lose the respect for it also. That's where you don't understand that it's not just an activity, that a lot of serious things are happening there. 

In a milonga, the dance floor is like a sacred space. And it's a sacred space because of what happens there. You know, all the spirits that are awakened there, all the experiences that happen there. You are dancing, you are giving yourself, surrendering with the other person, you're, like, really into each other. Things happen there, right? And they are so strong, they are so profound that they should be respected. That's one of the aspects of respect that people should keep in mind when they tango. So what happens on the dance floor is sacred. But there's a limit, you know - that's why the dance floor should have tables around, because it's limited. When you step off the dance floor, it's another world. I was having a conversation about this the other day with a woman who's happily married and she was worried that tango was very dangerous because of what she feels when she's dancing. The husband doesn't dance. And it's like, "I don't want my marriage to, you know- I love my husband!" ...it's like- and I told her that, "yeah, but what happens on the dance floor stays on the dance floor. The moment you step out of the dance floor, you set your boundaries." It's like having a trip with drugs and a guru next to you that will take care of you. Like, you can give yourself to the trip and then when you come back, you're safe. And in tango, it's like, in tango-

LIZ: But you have to be your own guru.

FELIPE: Yes, you have to be your own guru. But not only, because there's other people in the community that mentors you. Tango allows you to dive into that world of your emotions and your partner's emotions in a safe way. Because the thing about tango is that you, um, you become vulnerable, right? And you are allowing the other person to come into your world and you are entering in the other person's world too. And that's why it's so strong. That's why I said the dance floor is sacred, because those deep things can only happen in a sacred place. And that's why it should be respected and protected. Understanding this is why sometimes tradition makes sense and why things change when you start dissolving those parameters. You know what I'm saying? 

LIZ: You mean like the tables, as an example?

FELIPE: Well, as an example, the table, the códigos, or this or that.

[LIZ ASIDE] Códigos are rules of tango etiquette.

FELIPE: All those things are not set in an artificial world. They all came out to be for a reason.

LIZ: Right.

FELIPE: It's like manners in society. They have a purpose, although today we might think it's old-fashioned or whatever. Everything has a reason behind that. Those things might be changing with the times, obviously, right? But, but there are things that are very delicate, so you have to take care of them. You know, when you talk about the clothes and how things change, it's like, okay, nobody cares whether you wear a suit or you wear jeans and sneakers, that's not a big deal. Now, when you talk about emotions, that's a big deal, so those things should be taken care of. Everything that has to do with preserving that those things can happen and they can happen safely, emotionally safely and physically safely. Even when things change and evolve, superficial things can change and it's not a big deal, but certain things should stay in place because otherwise people won't be able to get to that place because they won't feel safe anymore. Whatever happens on the dance floor is because you are dancing, because you are sharing the experience with the person, but the moment you cross the line into the tables area, it's a, it's a different story. And people should be able to set that line, not to get confused.

LIZ: Do you find that most experienced dancers are good at that?

FELIPE: I mean, what makes an experienced dancer is actually being able to operate in all those dynamics in and outside of the dance floor, you know? It's like, when somebody has been around long enough, you know how all those things work. You know,  how many times you dance with somebody and you don't talk to the person at all, all night. Right? It's like, you're sharing that tanda. That's- sometimes with certain people, my only exchange with them at all is the tanda we dance that night. Sometimes I don't even know what they do, where they live. You don't know anything about them and you still have a very- somehow you know them, you know, some very deep interaction with them. And the opposite - so many times you have friends that you know everything about their lives, but you don't dance so much with them, because for whatever reasons, it doesn't work. But you love them anyway and you share lives in a different, in a different situation. There needs to be consent from both sides, right? And that's why the experience is so magical.

Nowadays, all these codes are, um, waning down. They are like disappearing. In many newer milongas, there's no cabeceo.

[LIZ ASIDE] Cabeceo is a non-verbal invitation.

FELIPE: Everything is more relaxed, which is great. On one side, it's great. But again, we have to also think why those codes were in place. It's like, there should be another way then to find that consent, right? Or people should be okay if you go and ask, you know, verbally, you should also be okay with somebody saying no then, like in other dances, right? But in tango, it seems to be a big deal. So everything needs to adjust in that case, right? And teachers need to teach the students how those things work, you know. Dancers should teach their peers. 

LIZ: So we all work together to make it a safe environment.

FELIPE: Yeah, but I'm not talking about just from the point of view of, like, having some, you know, predators in the community or things like that. I'm talking about a safe place emotionally for the person when you go into a dance. Right? If you cannot trust the person you're dancing with, for whatever reason - it could be something that comes from you or something that comes from the other - if you cannot trust, you are not going to be able to dive fully into the embrace. And part of that trust, part of that, uh, sense of letting go comes from your choice. That's why it's so important that you choose to be there - that you choose the music, that you choose the person, that you choose the moment. And so many people are dancing, but they didn't choose to. I danced last night a tanda that I didn't choose. Because somebody came to ask me to dance and I wanted to be polite and I accepted. So I am myself responsible for that. But in that tanda, there was no magic. There was no spirits. There was nothing sacred happening. It was duty in a way. You know what I'm saying? So those moments, those magic moments can only happen when both want it and both give themselves into the experience. And then, yes, then you have those emotions. You have those spirits. You have that magic. And because of that, we should have that respect for what's going on there. And have all the attention and make sure that we preserve those conditions.

LIZ SCRIPT: 
Here's to respecting and preserving the sacred potential of choice and keeping the fire alive. Thanks to Felipe and to the Internet Archive, where I found the recording that accompanies this episode, "Trago Amargo," by Julio Navarrine and Rafael Iriarte, performed by Juan D'Arienzo y su Orquesta Típica with Alberto Echagüey.

[MUSIC FADING IN - LYRICS IN SPANISH]
Después, cuando la noche envuelva los bañados
y se oiga, allá, a lo lejos, el toque de oración,
inclínese a la Virgen de los Desamparados
y a mi pobre guitarra colóquele un crespón...
[MUSIC ENDS]